Hi friends. Welcome to the Life With Loverly podcast. I’m Brittany, a wife, mom, and lifestyle entrepreneur here to help you discover your best daily style and encourage you to try new things when getting dressed each day. I took a tiny following on social media and turned it into a community of over one million amazing women, and I am so glad you’re here. I’ll be sharing my heart with you beyond the 15 seconds on Instagram, so we’ll be diving into things like personal growth, friendships, motherhood, marriage, and of course, the business of blogging. Really, this space is here to serve as your go-to resource to building a life you adore while sprinkling some kindness to others along the way. Grab an iced coffee and let’s do life together. I’m Brittany, and this is the Life With Loverly podcast. Hi, friends. Welcome back to the Life With Loverly podcast. I’m excited for today’s episode because we are chatting all things Enneagram. If you’re not familiar with the Enneagram, it’s a system that categorizes people into nine different personality types. But the distinction between this system and others is that the typing isn’t based on behavior. It’s about our biggest fears and biggest desires that motivate us to behave certain ways. And I thought, who better to walk us through learning about this assessment than Ashton Whitmore Ober, known as Enneagram Ashton on Instagram. With a master’s in community psychology and experience coaching teams and individuals, she makes learning about ourselves so much fun. Before we dive in, I want to list the nine Enneagram types so that you can follow along and start to identify which number you most resonate with. Number one, the perfectionist. Number two, the helper. Number three, the achiever. Number four, the individualist. Number five, the investigator. Number six, the loyalist. Number seven, the enthusiast. Number eight, the challenger, and number nine, the peacemaker. The Enneagram has been a really helpful tool in our work environment to strengthen relationships and increase self-awareness. So it was really fun to walk through the different types in our office and bring real life examples to this episode. Okay, friends. I hope this brings new pieces of yourself to light today because you deserve to live out your best life. Here’s my conversation with Ashton Whitmore Ober. Hi, friends. Welcome back to today’s episode of The Life with Loverly podcast. I am so excited to be talking to Ashton from Enneagram Ashton on Instagram. Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

This is going to be so exciting. I feel like for the past probably five or six years, when I learned about what my Inneagram number was and kind of started paying attention to Enneagrams, there’s been so much information that I’ve learned and I’m excited to talk with an expert.

Yeah. I feel like over the past 10 years, it’s really created more of this popular atmosphere for people to create content around it and to put a lot of information out there, but then that also means that it can be information overload at times. So I’m excited for your audience to be able to have a starting point or maybe they’re kind of familiar with it and just are able to be able to have some digestible information.

So prior to becoming an Enneagram coach, what were you doing before that?

So I was working in the nonprofit world. So I am a community psychologist by trade and I was working in the domestic violence and sexual assault prevention field and also as a part-time professor. And so I still am a part-time professor teaching in the field of human services. But once I got my … Or once I discovered the Enneagram, I had always been helping people with relationships, like healthy relationships. I was going into schools and teaching students how to have healthy relationships with their romantic partners or their friends. And so when I discovered the Enneagram, I realized that it’s just a tool to help people also be able to do that. And so I could kind of intermix what I was previously doing by using this tool to help people have healthier relationships.

Totally. And I’m sure some of your just schooling knowledge and your background, you can probably see how some of the things click and overlap. Totally. And it’s like interesting.

Yes. I do love to understand people. That has always been something that I have loved to do. And so being able to have the language of the Enneagram really helps with that as well, because it’s just one other aspect of being able to understand each other.

Yeah. Did you have any idea how your life would change after you were introduced to Enneagram?

No. I literally was on my way home from a Christmas vacation break, Christmas break vacation. And I was in the car with my husband at the time. We were engaged and I was like, “You know what? I’ve been obsessing about the Enneagram and I need a creative outlet. So I’m just going to create this Instagram account and start to create content.” And then from there it kind of exploded. I mean, there’s no better way to explain it. And then people started to ask me for help figuring out their type. And so I remember coming home one day and saying, “I think this is something now. I think this is turning into something.” But I would’ve never guessed that seven years later this is my full-time job and that a job like this actually exists, right? Totally. You are taught to go to school, get a job, and we are just changing the trajectory of expectations when it comes to the workplace.

Totally. Which is, I hope people find encouragement from that, that you can really be passionate about something and do something with it. Yeah, totally.

So what’s your Enneagram number?

So I’m a two with a three wing. It’s a great example of how it’s difficult to type people. So as anybody, everybody does this. When we’re listening to the different types, it’s easy for us to say like, “Oh, that sounds like my brother,” or, “That sounds like my best friend,” or, “That sounds like my spouse.” But what we are seeing in them are ultimately behaviors. And what the Enneagram is, is based on your motivation. So your biggest fears and then your biggest desires, and that drives your behaviors. So to everybody else, I look like a three because the three is the achiever and they’re motivated and they’re driven and stereotypically a lot of entrepreneurs are threes because we have to be in order to be successful. But to everybody else, they’re seeing those behaviors, but they’re not asking me like, “Well, what’s the motivation behind those behaviors?” And so my motivation stays with the two, which is … So two with a three wing is what I am, which the wings just means it’s the numbers on either side of your main type. And so most people do have one that’s stronger than the other.

It’s so fascinating. I’m actually a three wing two.

Okay, cool. Yeah. I assumed.

Okay. So if somebody wants to know what their Enneagram number is, what tests do you suggest?

So my thoughts on tests, they’re a great place to start, but it goes way deeper than that. And that’s because, like I just said, when we’re taking tests, tests are often asking us questions based on behaviors, right? So do you have this need to strive for perfection or do you find yourself being more extroverted or introverted? Those are all behavior traits. What tests aren’t asking is the why. So why are you more extroverted or why do you get caught up in perfectionism? So take the test, but take a test that’s going to give you a probability of your results. So a test like Truity or The Ready, which is the Riso Hudson Enneagram typing instrument, shortened to the ready. I know it’s confusing, but I’ll give you all the links. Those will give you a probability. So they’ll give you a score for each of the types versus a test that will say, “You are a seven or you are a nine,” because there’s just no way for a test to actually know that. So take your top three results and then dig deep into those motivations, like really sit with what makes you the most uncomfortable because the reality is that sometimes with the Enneagram, it does make you feel a little bit like, “Oh, do I really do that?”

Right. Which I think is such a beautiful tool though, because then you can be aware. I find that emotional intelligence and Enneagram can kind of go hand in hand with helping you to be a better person and realizing some things that you might do and how to either adjust those or amplify those.

Yeah. 100%. It’s all about self-awareness at first is once we recognize that we do these things, then we can start to change some of those behaviors that we don’t really like about ourselves. And then when we’re using the Enneagram with other people, we can start to understand other people’s behaviors and why they might do things that annoy us or do things differently than the way that we would because they have different motivations for driving their behaviors.

Totally. Okay. So I’m a three, and let’s walk through the motivations, fears, and tendencies of a three are, and then I can tell you how I resonate with that.

Yeah. So the three is called the achiever, which is why, like I said, stereotypically a lot of entrepreneurs are threes, but remember that’s a behavior. So the simple act, maybe not simple, but the act of achieving, it’s again, why do you feel this need to achieve? So for threes, their biggest desire is to be successful, but ultimately to be seen as competent, capable, and efficient because of that success. And notice that I said to be seen, right? So threes really want to be seen and celebrated and validated because of the things that they’re doing. Three’s biggest fear tends to be failure. So they do fear failure the most. Sometimes they fear failure so much that it’s difficult for them to try something new if they don’t automatically know that they’re going to be good at it. But then they also fear being seen as incapable, incompetent, and really unsuccessful because they failed. So then this leads to some stereotypical Enneagram three behaviors, which like I said, they do have this drive to achieve. They’re very results focused, goal oriented. They are confident in who they are. They’re encouraging. They love to set and achieve goals, but they also love to have people do that with them. So they encourage other people to climb the ladder, so to speak, to be able to do those things as well. They are, like I said, great cheerleaders, they’re very confident and they’re also very charismatic. So they’re very social. They almost have this chameleon-like tendency where they can be whoever anybody needs them to be in that moment. Where threes can get in trouble sometimes is they often tie their value into what they’re doing. And so they can get caught up in some identity issues sometimes where if you strip away all of the different roles that you play, who actually are you? And that’s very difficult for threes to answer. They also like to impress other people, and so sometimes they might tie their value into other people’s opinions of them, which can be a challenge. And then sometimes they can be a little bit overly competitive or step on other people to get ahead in order to achieve whatever it is that they’re set out to do. They also, because they tie their value into what they’re doing, can have workaholic tendencies. And that’s because it just makes a lot of sense because if they feel like the more that I do, the more respected that I’ll be. And so why wouldn’t I just keep doing so that people will respect me more? It just makes sense to a three. So those are some key pieces about the three.

Yeah. That’s hitting hard on all of those fronts. It’s interesting because I feel like I want all of those things, but then at times where I’m like, oh, but I … What’s that good bridge to gap between the negatives and the positives or making shifts?

And the reality is, is that it is on a spectrum. So what we call the healthy versus unhealthy side of the type. And so you’re not going to be the healthiest version of your type all the time. I’ve been doing this work for years. I’m not the healthiest version of my type, but the thing is, is we have this awareness of when we’re not being the healthiest version of our type, and that helps us to get out of that a little bit faster.

Yeah, totally. Okay. So everybody has their own number, and then we also have a wing, which you talked about. Can you maybe just go into a little bit more detail about the wing and then specifically talk about a wing two for me?

Yeah. So the wing, like I said, are the numbers on either side of your main type. A common misconception is that it’s just your second highest score, like if you take a test. So for example, as a three, you probably also score high for a one. And so somebody would read those results and say, “Oh, I’m a three wing one,” and kind of just go on with their day, not realizing that your wing does have to be next to your type. So as a three, your wings would be a two and a four. Most people do have a wing that is stronger than the other one, like you said, your two wing is stronger, but that doesn’t mean that your four wing doesn’t exist. It’s just not as developed. And so part of the work of the Enneagram is to see how you can incorporate some of those four traits into your overall self or your overall being. And I’m willing to bet that you already know some ways that you could have those four traits. So really your main type holds your motivation. So your motivations stay with the three, but you’re going to take on some of those behavior characteristics of your wing. And so the two is the helper. And so a three with a two wing is going to really be a champion for other people, just really encouraging and uplifting, wanting to help other people out, wanting to help other people succeed, really motivational. Everything that they’re doing is going to be geared more towards other people. A three with a four wing might be a little bit more artistic, creative. They might generate great ideas. They might have creative hobbies. They might be more in tune with their emotions and other people’s emotions, more like romanticized things like that. And so again, there’s probably a balance, but most people do feel like they gravitate towards one of the wings over the other.

Yeah. It’s interesting because I feel like I haven’t … And maybe I just didn’t even realize that both wings would be in factor with the three, but hearing some of the things about the four, I’m like, okay, that’s very true. I feel attached to some of those things you just mentioned as well.

Yeah. And it’s not uncommon for people to not know that. You see people say like, “I’m a one wing nine.” It’s part of their makeup is what they say. And so people just kind of forget about the other wing and go on with it, but it’s there. It’s there and it’s likely playing a bigger role in your life than you realize.

Right. I’m going to start reading the type four, like things about the fours and be like, “How do we feel about that?” Okay. So even though we only have one number, is it possible to show up one way at work and one way at home with our type?

So even though we all have one number, and I do want to preface this by saying that your type is with you from birth, it’s more of that nature versus nurture. And that’s why you can grow up in a family structure with similar life experiences, but people having different types, because you should be able to look back on your life and see how your type showed up throughout your life versus your life dictating what your type is. So with that being said, your type is with you. Your wings, like I said before, can fluctuate. And so some people, for example, I hear some people say like, “Oh, I’m a three with a two at work, but at home, I’m more of a three with a four wing.” So those are examples of ways that that could fluctuate, but we also are all connected to two other types. So one, when we are stressed out or overwhelmed or just not the best version of us. And then the other type is when we are the best version of ourselves or growing or just more in tune with our behaviors. So for a three, when threes are stressed out, they become so overwhelmed with all of the things that they have to do that they don’t want to do any of them and they kind of freeze up and have no clear direction. They might procrastinate, they might put things off, they lose motivation, they lose purpose and intention, and that looks like the unhealthy nine. But when threes are really healthy, they will be more community focused, team driven, responsible, prepared, planning out things, more organized. And that looks like the healthy Enneagram six. So what I hear sometimes, like I said, the wings can fluctuate. So people will say, “This is what I look like at home versus work.” But some people also are like, “Well, I’m kind of stressed out at work, and so I’m taking on more of those stress characteristics at work, or I’m more stressed at home or around this group of friends, whatever that might be.” And so there are opportunities for your type to look a little bit different based on what’s going on externally.

Okay.

But your main type will stay the same.

Okay, that makes sense. So two of the girls on my executive team are Enneagram eights. And if someone is close to an Enneagram eight, whether at work or at home, how can we make them feel seen, supported and motivated to work towards a common goal?

So eights are called the challenger and they are extremely independent. They are great leaders. They love to take charge and get things done. So when it goes back to their biggest fears and their biggest desires for an eight, their biggest desire is to protect themselves and other people. And specifically, this looks like their people, like they’re very protective of their people or their environment or vulnerable populations. And so I’m willing to bet that the people that work with you are very protective of you, your brand, of the job, et cetera. Their biggest fear is being seen as weak or powerless or being controlled. And so a way to support eights is really to allow them to have that independence, to not micromanage, to not give them the space to be able to lead and get the job done. Eights are really great at taking control of the situation, but they’re also great delegators. And so trusting that if they can’t get something done, they’re going to get it done just maybe not in the way that you would expect them to. The job will get done and it’s supporting them along the way. Being upfront with them, so they hate when people beat around the bush. So being upfront with them, being honest, being transparent about what’s going on, what your expectations are can be really helpful if you have an issue with them or the work that they’re doing. Again, going straight to the source and saying, “Hey, I think we could improve in this area a little bit.” They are totally fine with feedback. There are other types that I would not say that about. But eights are like, “No, tell me what I can do so that I can be better,” because they don’t want to be perceived as weak, remember? And so they’re like, “Tell me what I need to do in order to maintain this strong appearance.” But deep down, so eights do have this strong exterior, but deep down it’s hiding this highly vulnerable interior and they tend to, again, associate vulnerability with weakness. And so breaking that shell can also be really impactful because once you do that, you know that you’re with them for life essentially. Once you are theirs, once you’re their people, they’re loyal, loyal and committed.

Totally. It’s funny, my best friend is also an eight, and so many of these things, I’m just like, “Yep, that’s Shay, that’s Shay, that’s Shay. We’ve been friends for like 20 years.” So it’s funny.

Threes and eights too have a shared kind of energy. They both like to get things done. They just have different approaches to it. And so recognizing that you have a shared goal and a shared mission, it just might be a different approach based on who you are as a person.

So my husband, he’s an Enneagram six and he also works here at Loverly Gray. He’s our president and he handles all of our behind the scenes business things. So with me being a three and holding more of the visionary role of the company, what are some tips for threes and sixes to work together relationally?

So I love that he’s in that position, first of all, because sixes are just great at being prepared and seeing the future and anticipating outcomes and all of those things. So just a quick little explanation about the six. They’re called the loyalist and they are driven by fear. And it kind of is upsetting to sixes sometimes that that’s how they’re known, but it’s not a bad thing. It’s just that they are anticipating what could go wrong and then planning accordingly so that doesn’t happen. And that’s an amazing skillset to have because a lot of us who are visionaries do not have that skillset where I have all of these ideas and I’m going to just do them and then we need somebody in the background who’s like, “Wait, wait, wait, did you think this through?” Or the logical side. And so I’m willing to bet that that’s a lot of what you experience is you are putting the ideas together and then he is logically outlining how you can make it happen. And I was going to say, if not, that’s what I would do. My husband is also a six, and like I said, I can look a lot like a three. And so I relate to, and twos and threes are very similar. So I relate to a lot of this because I mean, it’s dramatic, but I always say I think I would die without my husband because I’m just not prepared. I don’t think like that.

I could not agree more. I mean, Chris always jokes, he’s like, “What are you going to do if something happens to me? ” I’m like, “I’m coming with you.” We are a package deal.

Yeah, relatable. And so I think really just having you both in positions that fulfill your strengths or really align with your strengths. And it sounds like that’s what’s happening is to be able to have somebody who kind of balances out that creative energy. And I always say he brings me back to life when I’m like up here, and people can see me unless run YouTube, but I’m up here living in this, I have a thousand ideas and he’s giving me the structure to make it happen.

Right. Yeah. No, I definitely think it’s like a beautiful combination. Okay. So how has Enneagram impacted your parenting?

Oh my gosh. So my kids are little, so my kids are two and four. And so obviously I don’t know what their types are yet. And I won’t say that a lot of people … Second to the compatibility question is at what age can I figure out what their type is? And the answer is always at some point in their teenage years when they’re able to communicate why they’re doing things the way that they’re doing them. But me as a two and a mom, I know what I need to be doing in order to be refilled, in order to take care of myself. And I also know, like I said, when I go into that stress line, I know kind of what the root of that is and I can almost feel it, like sense when it’s happening and what I’m getting to that point. So I think because parenting is stressful, right? Let’s not pretend that it’s all roses and sunshine and butterflies. There are lots of really great moments. And then there are times where I’m like, “Oh, I just went to the eight because they wouldn’t get out the door.” I know.

Definitely times where I’m like, ugh

That wasn’t my best parenting, but okay, we’ll move on. And so knowing your type and knowing the things that might set you off or knowing these are the ways that … So my best friend is also an eight, which is funny. And we were talking about this yesterday because at play dates, I’m just very much go with the flow and it’ll all work out. And I’m very positive and optimistic and it’s chaos, but it’s a short season, whatever. And she is an eight who’s trying to have control of the situation and needs to know the time we’re going, how long we’re going to be there, what we’re going to be doing there. And so I think that in and of itself just made me think like, oh, this is so funny in our friendship as well as us both being parents and seeing how different our personalities are.

Right. It is wild though. Sometimes I’m like, I wonder what my kids are thinking or if they’re just like, “Oh, mom.” I know. And in comparison to my best friend or other parents too, my mom is a two and she is like that teacher helper, but she’s also very like, “Oh, be careful. Okay, hold on. Be careful.” And I feel like I have taken on so many of those things in parenting where I’m like, I don’t want to always tell them to be careful because they need to figure some things out. But it’s funny how some of those things kind of pass down and then you notice and you’re like, “Well, maybe this is why you do that or whatever.”

Yeah, for sure.

So speaking about twos and kind of bringing it back to work, I actually have a lot of twos on my team. We just recently did Like an Enneagram, we’re kind of doing an Enneagram discussion within some personal development here. And so we all just took a test and kind of figured out where we were. And then several of them are twos. So my question is, what should we know about motivating a two and how do they specifically deal with conflict?

I laugh because not well. I’m allowed to say that because I am a two.

Yeah.

So twos are the helper, like we said, and they’re driven by a desire to be liked and loved and needed and valued and appreciated, all of those things. And so then their biggest fear is being unloved, not liked, not wanted, not needed, not appreciated. And so the biggest way to motivate a two is to appreciate them and show them or give them tasks that show that they are needed. The biggest way to kind of demotivate a two is to give them too many tasks because that expectation is already there that you know you can go to this person because they’re going to do it because they want to. Right? Yeah. What twos struggle with sometimes is similar to threes where they might struggle with saying no, but for threes it’s about that like success and being seen as valuable because of what they’re doing. For twos, they might struggle to say no in a workplace situation because they want to feel needed. And then therefore when they feel needed, they feel loved. And so it’s again, similar to the threes, but still very different because the feeling of like value and loved is so personal to the person. And so they … Yeah, it’s really just going to be about making sure that they feel that. This is why conflict is difficult because for twos, they tend to fear conflict because they’re afraid of what could happen to the relationship. And so whenever there’s a conflict situation or tension or whatever, all they’re worried about is that the relationship is damaged. So they might not even be hearing you and what you’re saying because they’re thinking ahead to like, ” This is damaged and they hate me,” versus actually hearing what’s being said. What I recommend for working through conflict with twos is to kind of like validate the relationship before you even go into, say you’re offering constructive criticism or something, like validating the relationship. “I really appreciate everything you’ve been doing. I just want to talk about this one area or we’re good. We’re great. I really appreciate you, but I need to bring this up.” Really just setting the tone for what the relationship is before going into what’s going on, as well as giving them space to process. So a lot of times they’re thinking about, again, they’re people pleasers, so they’re thinking about what you want to hear versus what they actually want to say.

That’s like great advice, even just quick to always be remembering. And I feel like as some of my twos have been with me for a long time, and so I’ve learned how to have certain conversations, but just that extra awareness is super helpful.

Yeah. And you know that about them now, right? Totally. Because they’re a two. So you know that with any sort of … And criticism is a harsh word, but any sort of feedback, right? It’s like, okay, I need to do the sandwich method where I say something great and then I insert the feedback and then I follow up with something great.

Right. Exactly.

Yeah.

Okay. So I also have some nines. How do nines typically react to stress and what can they do to put themselves back into a place of health?

So nines are your peacemaker. And so they are very easygoing typically, easy to get along with, non-judgmental, approachable. They are … Remember I said the three goes to the unhealthy nine when they’re stressed. And so the unhealthy nine looks like being unmotivated, having a difficult time starting. We call them, they’re actually called the sloth. And so they kind of just move slowly, go along to get along, just want to keep the peace.That’s what their motivation is. Their motivation is their biggest desire is to maintain a peaceful environment for themselves and for the people around them. Their biggest fear does tend to be conflict. And so what stresses them out the most is conflict or tension or anything that is disrupting their peace. And that could be relational conflict or it could be environmental or it could be a lot of different things. So when nines are stressed out, they move to the unhealthy six. And so that’s when they might be kind of crippled with fear, thinking about worst case scenarios. They might be more anxious or experiencing a lot of worry. They also might start to really doubt themselves and their abilities. And so they feel like they can’t do something, they might be a little bit more insecure and really just down on themselves because of it. So how to get them back into … Are you asking from somebody who works with them or like the nine themselves?

Yeah. Maybe just the nine themselves.

Yeah. So first of all, it’s a lot about confidence building. And so exercising the abilities that you know you’re good at. So being able to continue to do things in order to remember that you’re good at doing them and to increase that confidence. It’s also really important for nines to just break down your tasks into really small, doable tasks. So instead of, let’s say a task that you might have for a nine would be, I don’t know, create a podcast outline. I’m making those up. Yeah. Instead of writing on your to- do list, create a podcast outline, it’s, okay, create an intro, create a three questions, you’re breaking it down as small as possible because every single check of the box is going to increase that confidence in your ability to get the job done. It’s a very simple- I actually feel that. Yeah. That people don’t realize.

I feel like that even helps me get back into a healthy three because when I’m in a negative, negative nine, but some of those things where you almost just kind of need to like, “Okay, let’s go. ”

Need to do it. Yeah. Just take a step.

Yeah. No, that’s so true. That’s so interesting. Okay. So now we have more of an understanding of the Enneagram. Can you break down the triads of the Enneagram?

So the Enneagram is split up into three different triads. Each triad has three types and those types have shared characteristics. So the gut triad contains types eight, nine, and one. And what that means is that they receive information kind of through their gut and then they have this gut instinct to respond. The only one that kind of represses that gut instinct is your nine. And that’s because their gut instinct is typically to not respond or to respond in whatever way other people want them to. And then they all have the shared characteristic of anger. It just looks different for them. So for eights, anger is just a natural emotional expression. They don’t really think much about it. It’s like happiness, sadness, anger. For nines, they will bury all of their anger and then it will come out as being passive aggressive. And then for ones, they’ll say, “I’m not angry, I’m frustrated,” or, “I’m annoyed,” or, “I’m disappointed.” And to the rest of us, no, you’re angry, but whatever, we’ll go with it.

Right.

For the heart triad contains types two, three, and four. And so these are our feelers. So they receive information through their heart, and then they feel things before moving forward. So they make decisions based on how they feel about something. The biggest difference is that the threes are the ones that are going to repress those feelings the most. And so that’s because they might say, “I don’t have time to access those feelings,” or their feelings or their emotions might look like passion to them versus feelings and emotions as we collectively know them. But the heart triad has the shared characteristic of shame. So for twos, it’s, am I doing enough for other people or contributing enough? For threes, it’s am I achieving enough or getting enough done? And then for fours, it’s simply, am I enough who I am? And then they all want to create significance or meaning from experiences. And I forgot to say for the gut triad, they are all kind of justice focused. And then for the head triad, that contains types five, six, and seven. So these are the people who are going to be thinking things through or overthinking, just spending a lot of time in their head. The type that represses that the most is the seven, and that’s because they will act on impulse and then think about it after. So they’re still overthinking, but it tends to be after the fact. They have a shared characteristic of fear. So for fives, it’s the fear that their resources or personal space will be depleted. For sixes, it’s the main connection with fear. We talked about this earlier. And then for sevens, they tend to fear missing out or being trapped or held back or held down. And then they all really just want to feel safe and secure. They value security. So for example, your husband, right? Being a six, when making decisions or presented with decisions, he’s going to be thinking them through, whereas you might be reacting based on how you feel about something or what you’re passionate about. I feel like making decisions in the workplace is such an easy way to see the triads unfold because everybody just functions differently based on their type.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So what is the biggest thing that you wish people knew about the Enneagram?

Just how, it sounds so cheesy, but just how life-changing it can be. The fact that there’s this tool out there that tells you not just who people are, but why people do things the way that they do can just help in so many different relationships. I always say the relationship that changed the most with the Enneagram for me was my relationship with my sister. My sister is an Enneagram eight, and me being an Enneagram two, we are just really different on paper. I’m very emotional and I’m a high feeler and she’s very gut focused, straight to the point, brutally honest. And so my entire life growing up, I just thought that she was yelling at me. But then I realized after I discovered the Enneagram, which unfortunately was in my 20s, I realized that she’s just passionate and that’s just how she communicates. And now, and then she also just realized, oh, I’m just emotional and hypersensitive, but now she knows that I have this desire to feel loved and liked and stuff and needed and appreciated. And so now that we are in our 30s and we’re both parents and there’s still family conflict at times and I’m able to understand what it is that she needs in that moment. I’m able to understand when she needs space, she knows what I need when I’m going through a hard time. That’s what I wish people understood is that having this tool can just be so impactful for your relationships where it takes out so much of the guesswork when we’re assuming things about each other, that a lot of times those assumptions are incorrect. And when we’re able to communicate with a shared language, it just changes the outcome of your relationships.

Yeah. No, that’s so true. So do you have any resources or books that you would recommend? I know there’s all sorts of things out there. I picked up a devotional one time that was an Enneagram three devotional and I found it so fascinating, but is there anything that you recommend?

So I did write three books on the Enneagram, so I have to…

Love it.

I have to talk about them first.

Absolutely.

So The Enneagram for Relationships was my first book. The second one is The Enneagram Made Simple, and then the third one is a little bit of Enneagram. And so those are great books, specifically the last two to start the … I kind of did it in reverse order, but the one is about relationships specifically. But other than that, there are some really great websites like the Enneagram Institute is a really great website for a deep dive into the Enneagram. And there are just a lot of books and resources out there that when I first started doing this, there weren’t. I think there was one book, The Road Back to You, that everybody read and everybody recommended. And now we have just so many resources at our fingertips to give people more information about the Enneagram.

I love that. And we will link these resources and the three books that Ashton has written in the show notes, so you guys can check those out for easy access too. Okay. Ashton, wrapping this up, I always end my podcast episodes asking the same question, and that is, what is the most meaningful act of kindness that somebody has extended to you that has had a lasting impact on your life?

That’s really difficult because I feel like there’s been so many moments of that. And it’s probably in part because I’m an Enneagram too, and I feel like every connection is meaningful.

Yeah, I know.

But I would say specifically, I mean, it’s been two years at this point, but my son was born almost two months early, and that’s just a moment in my life that I will never forget because of the people that showed up in that moment when I had an emergency C-section and I had a two-year-old at home, and then he was in the NICU. And so really thinking, when I think about people who have made a meaningful impact, it’s not just family and friends who showed up during the hardest times, but NICU nurses deserve all of the credit and just all of the praise in the world because I do not know how they do their job and the support that they offer to parents is just incredible.

Yeah. I love that. That’s really special. Well, this has been a very informative episode. I am fascinated to go read up a little bit more on my wings and some of when I’m in a happy, healthy place and when I’m in a negative place, I’m going to dig a little bit more because sometimes I feel like, oh, you find out what you are and then you’re just like, “Oh, everything that’s a three, that’s all I’m going to consume.” But there’s really so much more you can look into.

Yeah. That’s what I always tell people is when you read a book on the Enneagram, don’t just flip through to your type. Read it in its entirety because you’re connected to so many of the types.

Yeah, that’s great advice. Well, Ashton, do you mind sharing where our listeners can find you on Instagram and your website?

Yes, you can find me at EnneagramAshton. It’s E-N-N-E-A-G-R-A-M, Ashton, and my website is the same. So just EnneagramAston.com.

Perfect. And we will leave all of those links in the show notes for you guys. Again, thank you so much for joining and until next time, friends.

Thanks for having me.

Hi, friend. If you’re loving the show, will you go find that follow button on your podcast app? This will ensure that you won’t miss a single episode. I love having you in this community. Until next time. This season of Life with Loverly is produced by Elizabeth Evans Media Productions.