A lot of times situations are totally out of our control.
What we DO have control over is how we view the situation and how we respond to it. Taking ownership of your mindset can truly change the trajectory of your life.
If you relate to this but don’t know where to start, ask yourself this simple question:
Where are you today, and where do you want to be?
Maybe not so simple, right? If you’re still feeling a little stuck, don’t worry, because I was in your same shoes. And that’s where I found Jenn!
Jenn Boughey is a mindset coach, former counselor, and my personal life coach! She is here to give us tangible tips on how to get what you actually want out of life.
Jenn is a former counselor who wanted to learn more about the science behind human psychology and behavior. After landing a corporate job out of college, she went back to school and received a Master’s in Counseling - all while having 3 beautiful children!
Jenn started down her own path of “mindset coaching” and began sharing what she was doing on Instagram. Fast forward, and Jenn now has a successful coaching business, Uncommon Grit, where she is “empowering women like you to know their true worth, break free from the lies they've told themselves, and help them link the connections between their thinking and their outcomes in life”.
I have seen amazing results in my everyday life, career, and family because of the mindset shifts Jenn has walked me through, so I wanted to share the knowledge with you guys!
We are diving into:
- Victim vs. Victor Mentality: How to take radical responsibility.
- The origins of people-pleasing and how we can combat it today.
- And answering questions from you guys, including:
We are all guilty of throwing ourselves a pity party from time to time. But if you are stuck in this “woe is me” mentality - did you know you are actually doing yourself a disservice?
Jenn gave us some rich knowledge about making the switch from Victim to Victor mindset so we can actually start seeing change in the areas we want.
Victims might say something like: I can’t change my circumstances - they are out of my control.
While a Victor might say: I have the power to influence my circumstances and make the positive changes that I want.
If you are someone who wants to have a successful life - it all starts with your mindset. How can you practically apply these Victor mentalities to your life now? Well, Jenn has some answers for us!
Practical Applications to Achieve The Victor Mindset:
1. Build Awareness: What triggers you to be in the victim mindset?
2. Take Action: Why am I doing that, and what will I do about it?
3. Ask Yourself: What negative things am I saying about myself? Tell yourself what is possible and what you are capable of doing.
4. Identify Needs and Wants: What do I want out of life?
5. Start stepping into Victor Mentality!!!
As many of you know, I have struggled with people-pleasing my entire life. It has only been in these recent years in working with my life coach, Jenn, that I have truly been able to break free from the prison that is people-pleasing and create habits that honor myself while still honoring others.
One of my favorite tips Jenn gave about this topic was to get honest with yourself. What are you getting from people-pleasing, and how can you alternatively get it in a healthy way?
Maybe that’s validation from others, the feeling of being needed, or even just having a sense of control in the situation. For me, I have found my worth in Christ, and I promise you, friend, you can too.
There is so much freedom in changing your mindset. You are not only doing this for your present self but for your future self and your legacy. You get to have a say in the outcome of your life, so why not start today?
It’s time to invest in your future.
Check out Jenn’s Website and learn more about her coaching biz!
Follow Jenn on Instagram.
Listen to my previous episodes with Jenn:
Watch today's episode here!
Brittany: Hi friends. Welcome to the Life with Loverly podcast. I'm Brittany, a wife, mom, and lifestyle entrepreneur here to help you discover your best daily style and encourage you to try new things when getting dressed each day, I took a tiny following on social media and turned it into a community of over 1 million amazing women, and I am so glad you're here. I'll be sharing my heart with you beyond the 15 seconds on Instagram. So we'll be diving into things like personal growth, friendships, motherhood, marriage, and of course the business of blogging. Really, this space is here to serve as your go-to resource to building a life you adore while sprinkling some kindness to others along the way. Grab a nice coffee and let's do life together! I'm Brittany, and this is The Life with Loverly podcast.
Hi, friends. Welcome back to the Life with Loverly podcast! Today we have a podcast fan favorite, mindset coach, former counselor, and my personal life coach Jenn Boughey. Jenn is here to give us tangible tips on how to change our mindset to get what you actually want out of life. If you feel more like a spectator rather than the main character of your own life, then this episode is here to put you back in the driver's seat. Also, I asked Jenn some questions submitted from you, the podcast community. We covered tough parenting situations, setting boundaries with bosses, and how to regain self-esteem after a bad relationship. So be sure to tune in until the end to see if your question was answered. And after you enjoy this episode, scroll back to episodes 24 and 32. To hear even more from Jenn, let's go make our dream life happen. Here's my conversation with mindset coach Jenn Boughey.
Hi Jenn! Welcome back to Life with Loverly. How are you?
Jenn: I'm great! I'm so excited to be back.
Brittany: I know I am honored that the people wanted to hear from you again because I feel like we've had some really great conversations in past seasons and obviously there's so many topics you and I could discuss and cover and I feel like we do on a weekly basis, but I'm happy that we get some more of your knowledge and wisdom in the podcast this season.
Jenn: Well, I love your listeners and I love all of the different things that you cover on your podcast. It's such a fun variety. I think that's just so awesome for your listeners, but I have felt the love, so I'm super excited to be back.
Brittany: Today we're really going to focus on the victim to victor mindset and people pleasing, which you know how I am, but you've said in the past, victims look outward. So blaming others while victors look inward, taking responsibility. Tell us a little bit about this.
Jenn: Yeah, so I think I would take a step back and think about victim versus victim mindset. I think a lot of us are familiar with scarcity mindset, abundance mindset, but many of us haven't really ever thought about being a victor or being a victim in your own life. And so as we have this conversation today, I really want you to be thinking about not as a black and white situation, not as I'm a victim in my life or I am a victor, but it's really all intermingled and it's interweb. And there are certain seasons of life where you're a victim. There's certain seasons where you're a victor. And so first I would ask and have us all think about, we all know those people who no matter what comes their way, they're going to be successful. They stand up, they brush their knees off, they keep going, they are determined to be successful no matter what.
And then on the other hand, we have those people in our lives that are constantly complaining, focusing on the negative. It's like no matter even great things come their way. They're going to find a way to make something negative out of the situation. But here's the beautiful thing. There is only one difference between those two people, which ultimately what I just described to you was the victim and the victim. And the only difference is the way that they are looking at their circumstance. So it's really your perspective on life. They say it's not what happens to you, but it's how you react to the situation that really matters. So whenever we think about a victim, a victim oftentimes is blaming other people. They're looking outwards. If this person had only done, if my parents would've chosen this, if I could have just gotten that promotion, if he would help me, then I could lose the weight.
And what we're doing is we're blaming other people and we're ultimately rendering ourselves powerless because we are not taking any responsibility and without responsibility, guess what? You are out of control. You cannot do anything. So it's a really easy and comfortable place to be because you don't have to do anything and it feels easy in the moment to sit back and point blame, but really you're actually doing yourself a disservice. So on the opposite side of that is a victor who is taking what I would say radical responsibility and radical responsibility is just simply taking responsibility no matter what's happening, even if the circumstances out of your control, even if it's something that you really didn't have your hand in, there are going to be things that just happen in life. But if we can sit back and take radical responsibility and really focus in on what we can control, then you are going to have a drastic difference in outcome. Versus a victim who is going to be sitting back, typically pretty miserable, constantly complaining, pointing the blame at everybody else, but really they're the people who aren't getting what they want out of life. And so we want all of you listening to be a victor and to step out of that victim mindset.
Brittany: I love that. I think that's so encouraging. And even just in conversations that you and I have had in situations where I've changed my mindset or flipped to look at it that way, it's changed the whole way that things have gone for me. Yes. So it's definitely possible. It takes practice and I mean any mindset work isn't just going to be like, oh yeah, okay, let me just turn that thought off. There's a lot more that goes into it,
Jenn: Right? The perspective, I think one of my biggest shifts has been life is happening for me, not to me. And even I'm coming out of a crazy summer. I was out of my house, we found mold in my home. It was y'all ridiculous. I mean, you couldn't even see it. You couldn't smell it, which was the scariest part. But I was really listening to my body and got tested, and even in the midst of all of that, all of our summer plans were kind of thrown out of the schedule. I just kept saying this happening for me, this is giving me extra time with my kids. I'm taking some things off my schedule for work, and I'm going to find a way to make the most of this to build in memories and to make the most of this experience. So I went to 30 A because what else do you do?
Brittany: I know
Jenn: Besides, we got an extra beach vacation!
Brittany: Exactly. Well, and I think it's so important, your kids were watching you through that whole all summer, how is she going to handle this? How are we handling this? So for them to be able to look at you and be like, okay, this is crazy and this is unfortunate. We're going to have to fix this, but we're going to still be positive. We're going to make the best out of it. I mean, I feel like you're doing that service for your kids and their future and their mindset.
Jenn: Yes. That's what I tell people all the time inside the tribe, (which is my monthly membership), is that listen, when you're doing this work, and even with my one-on-ones, you are doing this for your coworkers, for any relationship that you're in. But really, ultimately you're doing this for your legacy because once you learn that and you're practicing it, people start picking up on it, especially your kids. So yeah, you make a really good point and how we respond and how we react, our kids are going to be conditioned to that and what do they say more is caught and taught? So what you model for them is what they're going to do, not what you say, not what feels good, not what is the textbook answer, but how you actually respond. So whenever we can get super aware with ourselves and be honest about that, then I think that's really when we can start making a massive change for our kids.
Brittany: I love that. Okay, so what are some characteristics of someone that is living more in the victim mindset?
Jenn: I will read these off to you because I think you might be living in a victim mindset if statements I think are very helpful. So you might be in a victim mindset if you think negatively on a consistent basis, if you lack feelings of self-importance, if you feel like you're damaged goods or you're not valuable or you're not worthy, if you experience jealousy and envy towards others, and if you blame others for your life and the outcome, I don't know about you, but I'm human, so I'm guilty of every single one of those. So it's really important for us to not beat ourselves up, but to just say, we're human and this is normal. What we want to do then is to focus in on how to get out of that. But I also want to touch on, there's five other main points that I think is important to address that victims do and that they are, it's their way of operating, if you will.
So the first thing that victims do, which we've already talked about is they blame others. It's a lot easier to blame others than to really look ourselves in the mirror. The second thing that they do is that they complain a lot. If they're complaining about life and about other people, then they don't have to do anything about it, the victim. And we have this thing in our brain called the reticular activating system, and what that means is if you believe something about yourself or you think that you're the victim, what's going to happen is you're going to go out and find evidence for that. So the more that you complain, the more that you're looking at your circumstances in a pessimistic way, the more you're going to be finding evidence for that. And you're going to be seeing, see, look at that. I am a victim.
So you are neglecting your own responsibility. The third thing that they do is they make excuses. They make excuses instead of taking action, that is the number one thing that victims do. You're not taking any actions. You're just sitting back and letting life happen, which is not really what you ultimately want. And the number one excuse is, I don't have enough time, or it's not the right time for me. So we come up with all these excuses if only he had, if would do, if I could get that. It's just never great for us. The fourth thing is that victims settle in life, so they're settling and excuses make the way for settling. And then the last thing is they do is they crave pity. They seek pity from other people. They want to tell their story over and over. And the more that people ooh and awe and say, gosh, that is so terrible, I can't believe that always happens to you. The more that they are building up their case that, see, I am the victim and things just, yeah. And so really the victim mentality is all about making things outside of you. I know we talked a little bit about that, but it's really about putting your life externally. And whenever it's external from you, you can't do much about it, which is kind of really unfortunate.
Brittany: I feel like I definitely sometimes can get in this victim mindset depending on what the situation is, and then it just kind of is a quick way to have a downward spiral, even though I feel like I normally am a person who is always looking for the good in things and something bad happens, it's like, it's okay, let's get back up. That I feel like is my wiring to my core. But there are definitely times where certain things happen or experiencing jealousy or envy towards other, I mean, it's so easy to get on Instagram and being like, oh gosh, well, they're doing this and I need to be doing that and I should show this a little bit more and dah, dah, dah. The comparison game, which I know we've talked about a lot, and then you just so quickly can just stay stuck in that mindset and you really have to get yourself out of it.
Jenn: Yes, yes. And it's about taking some type of action, and it's also about building awareness. I remember a client when we were really working on people pleasing, which we'll get into because that can be a little bit into the victim mindset at times. She would catch herself kind of in that. So if you catch yourself in the jealousy or in the comparing or in the complaining, just catch herself. And sometimes I feel like it's an out of body experience, it's like I will watch myself doing it, even though in the back of my mind I'm like, why am I doing this right now? But I want you to know that that's a step forward, just the fact that you're realizing you're doing it, so then the next time you're more likely to stop yourself in the process of doing it. But yes, a victim, victim mindset, it can grab a hold so quickly and I can be in it for hours.
I can sometimes be in it for days. Again, no one's exempt from it. It just depends on what's kind of really triggering you in the moment. Like I said, it could be a certain relationship, it could be a season of life, it could be in a certain area. There's parts of my life where it's super easy for me to be a victor, but that's because I've been practicing that for years and years and years. And same with you, right? There's areas, it's so true where it's super easy, and then there's other areas where it's like that's your trigger spot. So just kind of keeping awareness of that.
Brittany: Sometimes it feels almost like the devil is using this victim mentality to pull you back down.
Brittany: You feel like you're overcoming things. You're in a good spot. And then it's like he just sneaks in and he's like, I'm going to get her here today. And she's not even going to be expecting it, and it's going to wreck her whole day. So I feel like that's sometimes how I relate it. And then it makes me like, no, I'm not going to let that happen because you don't have a hold on my life right now.
Jenn: Amen. Yes. Yeah. Well, he likes to come in there and just plant a seed, and then we start to water the seed and we think about the seed, and then we take that thought and then we start finding evidence for the thought. And then yes, we start spiraling so quickly, but then for you to snatch it, the Bible says to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ, but also take every thought captive and be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so we have to constantly be renewing. So this is not a one and done process. It's an everyday process, which is the number one question I get inside mindset work. When does this ever stop it?
Brittany: This is a forever thing.
Jenn: It is a forever thing. And there will be seasons where you master something about yourself personally, but then here comes another layer and you find yourself in the victim mindset or struggling with this. And so it's just pulling back those layers. But the beautiful part about it is that you get to have a say so in the outcome, even you in those moments where you're switching your mindset. So no longer are you going to be in that spiral and being taken out. You actually get the victory because you're declaring that victory over yourself by taking responsibility of your mind and how you're going to be giving your top thought and attention to those things that he's trying to pin you with, which he's sneaky little thing.
Brittany: So if those are all qualities in the way that the victim thinks and acts, talk to us about how the victor thinks and acts.
Jenn: Yes, Great question. I love the victor. So the victor is all about taking personal responsibility, radical responsibility. So you are going above and beyond, and these are going to be things that maybe it's even outside your control. I know we talked a little bit about this, but what I want you to be focusing in on is the power of taking responsibility means that you are pulling back your power to yourself. You're focusing on the controllables, and now you have a say so for the outcome because you are now putting yourself over that position. They're constantly asking themselves of Victor is how can I be learning from this? How can I be growing from this? They're honest with themselves, this is an unfortunate circumstance. This is hard. This is frustrating. This is not where I want to be. And yet at the same time, they're constantly asking themselves, how can I improve?
The second thing is that they embrace challenges. So when challenges come their way, they are not shrinking back. They're not avoiding, they're not trying to get away from it, but they're really attacking it head on. And again, it's because they're asserting themselves over that situation and saying, I can figure this out. They're great at problem solving. They also like to take action, very opposite of the victim. So there's no settling. They take movement. They believe that life is happening FOR them and not TO them. And then fourth thing is that they have a strong personal foundation. This gets into tons of mindset work and really understanding all about what you want, what you desire, what you're after. You really have to get super convicted on what you're fighting for. And I think for women, a lot of us are afraid to admit that to ourselves.
So if you're not there yet, what I would say and what I would challenge you to do is to get quiet with yourself and just say, what am I afraid to speak out loud? What am I afraid to say that I really want in life? But get really, really clear about that because if you don't know what you're fighting for or why you're fighting for it, it's going to be very hard for you to step up into that victor mindset. And then the last one is that victors live outside their comfort zone. Brittany, you could probably talk to us about this. How many times have you been living outside your comfort zone and it's scary and it's risky, and you're like, holy crap, can I actually do this? But that is where everything that you wanted is on the other side of it. So you have to be ready to be uncomfortable. You have to be willing to risk things because you're kind of putting your flag in the ground and you're saying, this is who I am and this is what I'm about. I'm not afraid to declare it. I'm okay to put up boundaries, and it can be scary and it's definitely risky, but also you get the life you want. That's the beautiful part about being the victor.
Brittany: And I think that's what is so encouraging, just knowing, and I hope that you guys listening feel encouraged hearing that second list of qualities and have a desire to say, Hey, I want to be that person. How do I take on that persona in my life and instill those qualities over? It's so easy to be the victim. It's easy to be like, ah, they're attacking me, tapping out and not doing hard things. But I listened to you say that list and I'm feeling encouraged and motivated, and I'm like, yes, I do want that.
Jenn: Yeah, absolutely. That is where the excitement is. It's scary, it's risky, but that's where the excitement is and that's where you start coming alive. I was talking to a one-to-one client last week, and she's about to launch this whole business and kind of put it out there, and she was super nervous about it, and I was talking to her about, but that's where you're alive. This is where you're doing the fun, hard, scary stuff. But that is where you're ultimately also following your dreams. So for those of you who haven't stepped out into that, I just challenge you to just ask yourself, what is the next step? How can I in very small steps, start stepping into that victor mindset? Maybe it's one of those things at a time, maybe it's not all of it. I'm very big about mastering one thing. So maybe picking out one of those things that you could focus in on.
Brittany: So what's the cost if we don't work on closing the gap between the victor and the victim?
Jenn: My biggest thing, the cost is what you actually desire out of life. Because if you're sitting back waiting for everybody else to fix it for you, guess what? You're going to be waiting a really, really long time because everyone else is also in victim mindset and they're pointing the finger at you and everyone else to fix their life. And so you probably are not going to be getting the that you want. It reminds me a lot about weight loss. That's an easy one. Or making more money. We can complain all day long. The food, I can't keep x y food out of my house. I have kids, all these things. But at the end of the day, if you step into that victor mindset, you'll get what you want. So the biggest thing I would say is that you are going to have limited control over your outcome.
You are also going to be experiencing a lot of negativity, which no thank you. That's not going to produce the person that you want. And you're also probably going to have low self-esteem because you don't feel empowered, you don't feel excited. You're not moving the needle to where you really want to be in life. And also, I would say another one that just came to me is missed opportunities because if I always say be prepared before the opportunity comes. So if you're taking on that victim mindset, you're not even going to be ready for those opportunities when they come because you're already in this negative mindset space that can't even see it. Right? And when we're in negativity, we're shrinking our mindset versus when we're in victim mindset, we are expanding our possibilities and the opportunities that are available to us.
Brittany: That's a perfect example. I literally feel that at times when I feel like the victim, I'm like, everything is just can't handle anything else more. But when you're like, you feel like you've had a victory, you're just like, I got this. What else can we do? Let's keep it going. And that's what I think if you look at other people around you who you feel like are winning at life and they're doing everything and they're reaching their goals, that's probably the mindset that they had to get there.
Jenn: Yes, absolutely.
Brittany: So it is possible to get there. You just have to change your mindset.
Jenn: And that brings to a point that I typically say is that you can tell what type of mindset people have on just by looking at them, right? There was something so attractive about the victim mindset, and I'll tell you a story. One of my children, they tend to be in the victim mindset. And as a parent, it's very, very, very hard. They will look at almost any circumstance and find a way to tell themselves that they are left out. So two kids, I have four children. So if two kids are off playing, one of them is by themselves and they find themselves sitting there with no one to play with, they're automatically assuming that they are being left out. And so I kind of joke a little bit that I hope that that's not a core wound of her already. It could be, but I'm going to work on that.
But listen, again, kind of going back to our earlier point is that's when I jump in there and I say, "Hey, no, no, no, you are loved and you are valued, and I want you to go and take responsibility. And by taking responsibility, I want you to go assert yourself and tell the other two that you want to play with them." It's crazy how you can really start seeing it and how easily it starts playing out in your life. So anytime you feel down or discouraged or you're not enough, I would just start paying attention.
Brittany: What are some steps that we can take to this victor mentality and radical responsibility?
Jenn: Great question. The first thing I would say is build awareness. Start paying high attention to when you are in the victim mindset. I would start paying attention to what are your triggers? What's the circumstance? Is it certain people? Is it in a certain environment? Is it at work? Is it at home? Is it in certain roles that you play? And then I want you to start asking yourself, why am I doing that? And then what do I want to do about it differently? So I want you to start taking action in a different direction towards it. And I also want you to really be thinking about what you're saying to yourself. What are the negative stories that you're telling yourself about who you are, about what's possible for you, about what you're capable of? Because as your thoughts go there, your life follows. So your thoughts create form, and the form is your reality. That's really is a true thing. And I think many people don't start realizing it until they're in mindset work and they're like, oh my gosh, I totally get it. I'm like, right, because you create, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe something, that's how you see things. That's the lens that you're wearing constantly. And then that's what you create. And then the other thing too is I would identify your needs and your wants. What do you really want? What are your needs? And start stepping into that victim mentality.
Brittany: Yeah, no, that's great. Okay. Can you list out some mindset swaps between victim to Victor?
Jenn: Yes. That's a great question. Okay. So a victim would probably say something like, bad things always happen to me. I'm always the one, right? It's like bad things always happen to me. But a victor would say, I can overcome challenges and create positive outcomes, so I can overcome challenges and create positive outcomes. A victim might also say, I can't change my circumstances. They're out of my control, which I would say is true, but a victor would say, I have the power to influence my circumstances and make the positive changes that I want. The last one is, a victim might say, I'm destined to fail no matter what. A lot of women will say this, I fail at my weight. I'm always been this way. It'll never work for me. But a victor would say, I'm capable of achieving my goals through determination and knowing exactly what I want. So it's how you talk to yourself truly. It's kind of the way that the boat sails, right?
Brittany: Yeah, no, those are, I feel like really helpful and can hopefully give our listeners some specific things to go off of when they are starting to find themselves in this victim mentality. It's like, okay, how can I switch that around?
Jenn: Especially in comparison as you say that it's so easy to be like, oh, she always gets what she wants. I'm always the one that doesn't get that, or I'm always left out. It's always these extremes, and that's just simply not the case. Oftentimes, we're looking in the gap where we're lacking and where there's not enough. Remember, that's a symptom of the victim versus looking at your possibilities or where you have actually gained or where you have been successful.
Brittany: It's so true. I mean, I'm just even thinking back on examples of times when I worked in my corporate job being like, gosh, they always get the better contracts, or they always get this. And it's like, okay, also look at all these great contracts I have, and I mean, it's so easy to quickly get into that victim mentality. So I think it's just kind of always remembering you have to stay on top of it.
Jenn: That's right. And as you're saying that I always think about too is this serving me? I like to be frustrated. We get justified in our frustration and we tell ourselves all these things. So it's like, I can be mad about this, but then I'm like, but who's really hurting here? Me, it's me. I'm the one suffering nobody else. They're still getting what they want. So really we're just harming ourselves and we're limiting. We're putting a ceiling on our potential and on our opportunities.
Brittany: Okay, so you say that people pleasing comes from parent pleasing. Tell me a little bit about this, and I feel like this is something we've talked about too, like a recovering people pleaser.
Jenn: You are in good company. So when we think about growing up in our homes, we're conditioned on how to relate with other people. So if we're relating with our parents one way, we're not automatically going to grow up and start relating with other people differently. So there's a conditioning that happens. So if we are getting approval and we're getting validation for things that are pleasing our parents, we are going to start learning that over time. Also, those of us who want to feel safe instead of giving our actual voice, or maybe if we are reprimanded for saying what we really wanted or what we needed, then we're going to start learning how to please other people and put other people's needs before. Now, do I think people pleasing comes solely from parent pleasing? No, I don't. I think there's lots of different ways, but I do think this is one of the biggest ways.
So if as a child you acted like an adult, if you were more mature and took on more responsibility, or if you took on a caregiving role, even from an emotional perspective, or if your parents were emotionally overwhelmed or super heightened and you kind of had to walk on eggshells, that typically is going to lend itself to more parent pleasing, which will then end up into people pleasing. So when I started researching this a few years ago, I remember having such an aha moment because I was struggling with why in the world do I people please? I do it all the time. I'm constantly saying, yes, I'm overcommitting myself. And at the end of the day, everyone else is smooth, cruise control, love and life, and I'm over here stressed, armpits, sweating. I don't have enough time. But I finally realized, again, taking responsibility, this is up to me.
I am the only one to blame for this. And so I kind of went on this hunt for what in the world causes this? And so this made a lot of sense to me. Again, it's not the only key that opens up this box for me, but it does help me disassociate. It's my fault. It wasn't my fault that I became a people pleaser. So now what I get to do is kind of draw the line and say, how do I want to start acting now? I don't want to people please, it's not serving me. It's not serving my family. It's honestly not serving your relationships because you know what you're doing when you're people pleasing, it's kind of twisted, but you're actually trying to control the other person so that you're getting the validation that you need because ultimately we don't feel powerful or we don't feel worthy. So we're trying to kind of do this puppet dance so that they're happy, so that then we get what we want versus why don't we get them out of the scenario altogether. And why don't we validate ourselves either with our relationship with Christ or on our own, however we want to do that. But it's such a more freeing experience and to be able to say no and not people please, and to feel really strong in that, it's an incredible feeling still recovering, but well on our way though over here.
Brittany: Still working very hard.
Jenn: Does that resonate with you at all, or how do you feel about people pleasing?
Brittany: I just sometimes feel like I get caught in being like, oh, I can't say no, or I need to do this for them. They need my help, or they need me to do this for them. And then I think then that goes into problems of not being able to delegate properly. Like, well, I'll just do it so that you don't have to, and that doesn't serve anybody, and it makes me more stressed. So I think it's definitely something I've been working on, but through some of our conversations, I've been able to just at least take a step back and be like, hold on a second. Why am I doing that? Or what happens if I say no? And what happens if I put my needs first? The other people are probably going to be no big deal, and then I'm going to feel this weight lifted of like, okay, wow, that's so relaxed. I feel relaxed. I'm not stressed because I am not trying to stay up to their standards that they didn't even know they had for me. That's
Jenn: Right. That's right. Or you're not having to be obligated even though you're putting that obligation on yourself, and then you can be free from it. And I think too, sometimes just holding our needs just as important as other people. And to your point, oftentimes other people don't care if we say yes or no, they're just simply asking. But then we feel the burden of saying yes,
Brittany: It's hard. I mean, I would love to not talk to somebody who's never struggled with people pleasing. I just dunno if that's a thing?
Jenn: I don't know either.
You also have such a heart to give and care for others, so a lot of yours might come out of a value of yours. I mean, you are so great. Brittany doesn't share nearly as much as she could about how much she gives back, but I know her well, and she gives so much back. And you have the biggest heart, which when you do, it's hard not to feel the weight of that responsibility, which is another great question to ask. If you're in the midst of people pleasing or you're finding yourself in another situation, just ask yourself, what is my responsibility? Is it my responsibility to figure out this person's dog while they go on vacation? Just say, no. It's their responsibility. They can figure that out on their own. But
Brittany: I mean, I was literally just talking to Chris about this last week, and I'm telling him this problem that somebody's having, and I'm like, I could just fix that problem for them by doing this, but I know that's not my responsibility, and I know that that's not the answer to the problem here, but I could just help them. And he's like, this isn't even a problem related to you. You're trying to solve this problem that you can't solve because it's not your problem to solve. But I get so just invested in certain things and it becomes hard.
Jenn: Yes. Well, the other thing too, as you say that is we also like to be needed. Some of us, I like to be needed. That's true. And so it's like, okay, they need me. I want to fill in on that. That makes me feel productive. But sometimes on the backend, it's like I kind of have to walk it out, okay, three days from now, am I going to be happy? I said yes to this, right?
Brittany: I know. Or it's terrible then to be like, yes, I'll do it. And then No, you really don't want to do it. And then go back and be like, actually, I can't. I've over committed. Because then that's not fair or fun for the person thinking you are going to do it for them.
Jenn: Another good easy tactic, you're giving me all kinds of ideas, is whenever someone asks you something, especially as a people pleaser, and this is what I teach clients, is to just simply say, "Hey, that's a great question. Can I get back to you?" Go back home, sit on it for 30 minutes. It can be a day, but just take a moment. Just take a moment before you just vomit yes.
Brittany: Yes. Which is so true. And I'm looking over here at Cat because while she does the podcast and helps Elizabeth with all the backend of the podcast, she also does all my brand management. And so many times she'll come to me and she'll be like, "Hey, let me go over the list of offers or things we have going on. And she'll go over and I'll be like, okay, great. I'll think about all of that." And then I feel like sometimes she's like, I didn't get any answers, but I'm like, I need to process before I say yes or no, because I used to say just, yes, yes, yes, sure, we can do that. And then I can't do that. I can't do everything.
Jenn: Not feasible,
Brittany: But I always say, let me think about that a little longer. Come back and ask me that again. Let me give myself a little bit of time to really figure out if that can actually work and if it's going to make sense for my brand.
Jenn: That's right, yes. Considering yourself. That's so hard for some of us to do, but I always like to say, okay, I'm honoring them. Am I people pleasing? But how can I honor myself at the same time, at the same weight? They're both very important. And you're not selfish. That's a myth.
Brittany: Yes. I think that's the important thing to remember is you're not selfish by wanting to just let me think about it.
Jenn: Right. Nope, not at all.
Brittany: Sometimes it's hard to identify that we are people pleasers. We are just thinking we're being nice. I know we've kind of touched on this a little bit, but the difference between just being nice and being a people pleaser.
Jenn: I think being nice is more characteristic and it's more values based. I think one of your top values is kindness. Am I right? Maybe for the company? So I would say that that's more of how you were treating others kindness, consideration, respect, whereas people pleasing is more fear-based, more the fear of people disapproving of me, of rejecting me, being mad at me, of having that confrontation. And really sometimes we'll do that at the expense of whatever it takes for us just to avoid that. So I think there are two very, very different things. I think there is a way for you to say no and still be kind nice, but people pleasing. I don't think it's kind of nice to yourself. So yeah, I think people pleasing is just more fear-based than actual values-based.
Brittany: So how do we take up more agency and lessen our default of people pleasing?
Jenn: I think paying attention to why you're doing it, what are you really after? What are you wanting? And just getting really, really honest with yourself. I think that's honestly the hardest part. I remember I was like, I just want people to like me. What's so wrong with that? In fact, we had some friends over on Friday night, and he was talking about how in high school it was his number one goal for everyone to like him, but there were five people who didn't like him, and he's like, I can still name them. Why didn't they like me? Which I get, I totally get. So I think it's what are you trying to get in people pleasing, and is there another avenue for you to be able to get that? And if so, can we start moving in that direction? So just identifying what it is that you're looking for. What do you actually really need and want, and how is people pleasing providing that? But it's really kind of in an unhealthy way. We want to make sure you're doing it in a way that is beneficial to you as a person. I
Brittany: Love that. I feel like those are all really great takeaways.
So we put up a question box on the Life with Loverly Instagram, and we had some really great follower submissions, so I figured we could spend a little bit of time going over them. Some are kind of like for you and your advice, a few of them we could have a conversation on, but I'd love to get into some of these questions and hear what you have to say.
Jenn: Yeah, let's go for it.
Brittany: Okay. First up, how did you launch your coaching business?
Jenn: That's a great question. I just started,
Well, a little backstory is I was in the counseling world for a while, spent five years getting my master's, had all my babies and all that timeframe, and I got into the counseling world and I just was not satisfied. And to be honest, I was so mad at God, and I really pushed through for about a year and a half. I ended up resigning. All my mentors told me I was making the biggest mistake, but I really trusted God in that process. And so I sat at home for 18 months, and that was really hard for me because an overachiever and I like to do, and if I have a million plates spinning, I'm way better than if I only have one. So I just kept having this idea and this vision of women and wanting to use my story. I have a crazy story, but really wanting to use my story for the betterment of other women.
And this idea just kind of fell into my lap life coaching. But to be honest, I kind of thought about it as a 1980s old businessman in a black suit. Like crazy boring. I was like, life coaching, that's so lame. I'm not doing that. But then kind of the hot word came out, mindset coaching. So I ended up getting certified in that, and I just started telling women what I was doing and what I was about, and just slowly but surely, God just started building the business one by one. And then I got on Instagram and was brave enough to just start living my life out loud. And I think that's really when the business took off. I really just try to show all parts of my life. I don't show the real, real, but I'll talk about the real. Like, Hey, we had a hard night parenting. Hey, we had this situation happen here. So that's just kind of how it started, and it just evolved over time.
Brittany: I love that. I'm so thankful that you made the shift, and it's really beneficial for me that you have a counseling background because while I feel like you are mostly a life coach, a lot of our conversations are very therapy related. For me, it's like, here's this problem, but you use, I just feel like it's an excellent mix of how our relationship is. And so I so appreciate your background, but I feel like I learned so much from your mindset work and the way to rethink things.
Jenn: Thank you. Yeah, I do think it's really what sets me apart is having the mix of the two. One thing that people will often ask me, so if you're wondering what's the difference in counseling and mindset counseling, I kind look at counseling as looking back and kind of understanding where you are, how did you get to where you are today? And also you have clinical things like depression, things that might come up, anxiety disorders, things like that. But then mindset, the reason why I'm so passionate about mindset is because it's like, where are you today and where do you want to be? Where do you hungry for? Where do you want the trajectory of your life to go? And then let's start making some action steps to get there. And then of course, as we are discovering limiting beliefs and things that pop up and how people are believing about themselves, we'll naturally get into little dips of therapy like, oh, that's an interesting situation that happened with your mom.
Tell me more about that. What did you believe? What I call agreements. What's the agreement you made in that timeframe and how is that affecting you now? And then what's the new agreement you need to make? I think there should be no shame also around therapy or mindset work. I do think that it's not really a sexy thing per se for women, but I want you to know the women who are brave enough to get in there and do the work results show. It's just really phenomenal When you get to really know yourself, there's just no confidence that truly can match that when you get to know who you really are.
Brittany: It's so true. I mean, we say all the time, we'll be talking about something and you'll remind me and be like, okay, well think about what two years ago Brittany would be doing, and how you are already just, you've just solved this problem for yourself. And I do several times. I'm like, I'm proud of myself for putting in the work and then getting to the point where we're at now.
Jenn: Gosh, leaps and bounds. It's massive difference. Yes. Just the other day on the phone, I was like, I'm so freaking proud of you. Like, my gosh, I'm doing a cheerleading dance over here for you. Just want to give you the biggest hug. I'll drive to Athens to give you a hug.
Brittany: Perfect. You're welcome anytime!
Okay, next question. Advice on how to set boundaries with your boss as a new mom. So for example, work hours or working from home or the baby's sick, I need to do X, Y, Z.
Jenn: Yeah, I think when it comes to boundaries, I think it's just you being really, really clear on what you're after, what you want. I think oftentimes we try to create boundaries, but we're a little ambi. What is it? Ambiguity. We have ambiguity around it, and we're not really totally sure. So I would say focus in on what you're really asking, and as we approach our boss or as we're communicating, I always think about the word honor. How can I honor my role, honor my boss, honor the business, while also communicating those boundaries? And here's the hardest part, honestly, not so much communicating the boundaries, but when they've been crossed is then recognizing that like, Hey, you crossed this boundary. Hey, we made this decision. Hey, this is what I'm desiring. You agreed to this, but now I feel like I'm being stretched over here. Can we go back to our original agreement? So I could probably have a little bit more context around that one, but I would just say, be really clear about what you want your hours to be, the days you want to work from home and honor them in the process as well as yourself.
Brittany: No, that's great advice. Next question is what are some suggested boundaries to maintain family connection and values?
Jenn: So I'm assuming this person is saying they want to create family connection within their own family. Is that what you would say?
I would say so listen, we have to be intentional about these things. We can set aside values, we can put 'em up on our wall, and we can kumbaya, okay, we can do all those things. We did that and then nothing happened, and then we very clearly realized or very shortly realized, we have to make some intentional time around that. So what I would ask you or what are some intentional ways that you can incorporate your values into your family? So one of ours is experience. So experiences. That's what my husband does for a living. He loves experiences. We would go broke living on experiences, but I guess I'm for that. We're not broke, but so we go to Disney a lot, but we can't go to Disney all the time. So even finding little small ways to have that connection and create experiences. So we oftentimes will head out the door with one of our kids to have that quality time.
So I would say sit down with your values and get really practical with how you can apply those and then set some intentional boundary and timeframes around that. And in terms of the family connection, I would just think about how does your family connect best? Dinner time is not the best time for us. It's not happening. We have four kids in 17 different sports. It's just not happening for us, maybe one day a week. So we find other ways to connect. One of our ways to connect is watching America's Got Talent. We love that. And the kids and all, we just all laugh. It's just a fun way to do it.
Yeah, I would just get really clear about what it is and find practical ways to implement that.
Brittany: That's great.
Okay. Advice on how to communicate with a preteen/teenage children.
Jenn: Oh, that's an interesting age. I feel like Nichelle could come on here and give us some advice on that. Here's what I would remember. So we have to always take into consideration where the other person is. So if they're a preteen teenager, developmentally, they're going to believe that they know it all. They think they know it all right? And so we have to honor that at some level. Like, Hey, I bet you think you know how to do everything, and I'm here. The reason I'm here is because I care and I love about you. I love you, I care about you. I would just be really sure about where they're at and what they're asking. I think I'd have to have a little bit more context to that one.
Brittany: So it's interesting because I'm watching this new show, or Chris and I are watching this new show on Paramount called Lioness, and it's like a CIA type show, but it also shows the main character's family. And she's this high up position in the CIA and her husband is a brain surgeon, and they have a teenage daughter, and then maybe a 10 year old daughter. And they have had two scenes in the show within the first four episodes. And both times I looked over at Chris and I was like, wow, I love the way that they just handled that situation with their teenager. And it was hard conversation, and the teenager was yelling at them in one of the situations and just saying all these things that I'm like, we've literally paused it. And I was like, I mean, how do you even respond as a parent?
What is the right thing to say? She just made these super valid points and was letting you know exactly how you feel. And then the mom had to come back, and then the same thing with another scene. She was getting in trouble and the father just so lovingly but stern. I mean, it's crazy that in the same, and that's not common in TV today. I just thought it was interesting that, I mean, I have a three and four year old and I'm already thinking about, wow, I really like the way they parented when that type of thing had just happened.
Jenn: Yes. One thing you brought to mind is I do think it's important of all ages, but maybe even especially as they get older, my oldest is 11, is I always validate how they're feeling. So they're like, you're being so hard on me, or just I say, yeah, you're right. I love you, and I understand that. Or I'll say, thank you for that feedback. That's not my intention. I think the honesty, let's not talk in circles. Let's not talk around the bush. Let's just speak exactly to it. But also I think we have to sometimes only us know our children as well as we do. Sometimes our kids are acting out a certain way. I experienced this in toddler years. They're acting out a certain way, but they're really desiring something different. For example, scout yesterday I was sitting on the chair, what was I doing?
Oh, I was trying to order stuff on Amazon. The girls needed some stuff, and she's literally pounding my face with her fist, and she's serious. She's not laughing about this. She's trying to hurt me. I'm like, Scout. And then she just WAPs me in the eye, and instead of getting frustrated with her, I'm like, she needs my attention. So I put my phone down and I just grab her, and she's still trying to hit me, but then she finally released into me. So just as you say, that visual about the father just being so tender,
Brittany: Kind of read between the lines. What do they really need? What are they looking for?
Also, I really like what you said in a previous question, just in talking with your boss, but honoring your kids and just showing them honor too. They're learning. Everybody is learning. I mean, as parents, we have this opportunity to teach our kids and pave their way, but it needs to be done with honor where I feel like things can go so wrong for the parent child, parent, teenager relationship is, it's like, if you're not going to respect me, why should I respect you?
Jenn: That's right. No, that's so true. Yeah. If it gets into a power slash control battle, you've already lost. Yeah, that's a really, really good point.
Brittany: This is sort of similar, but the next question is mindset around loving a strong-willed child.
Jenn: I have four of those. So that's a great, we say a lot in our household that we have four chiefs, we have no Indians, no followers in our household. It's going to require a lot of patience, a lot of patience. And one thing that I have found, particularly in my own experiences is making sure that I understand my triggers. So there is one particular strong-willed child in our house who is stubborn, like stubborn will not, no, you are going to fall down before they will. And so in those moments, what I realize is I get so triggered, and when I'm triggered is when I respond in a way that I'm not happy about. So I would just recognize your triggers, know when to walk away, know the battle that you're really trying to fight. So in those moments, I always tell myself I'm trying to win her heart. I'm not trying to win this battle. Even in the moment, I'm like, I can squeeze you. So I think just making sure what is the long-term gain in that situation, because in the moment, oftentimes it's just emotions going all over the place than it is really about in control sometimes, right? The child trying to control is what I'm trying to say.
Brittany: Yeah. Okay. How do you make peace with a complete life change that was needed, but now you feel disconnected?
Jenn: If you were sitting in front of me, I would say, tell me more about feeling disconnected. What does that mean? But how do you make peace is I would focus in on what are the positives? What are you gaining? Kind of getting back into that victor mindset? How is this actually going to make you better? I know this wasn't maybe what it sounds like wasn't something that you were anticipating or what you would hoped would be, and we can all find ourselves in that situation. So I would really be focusing in on, yeah, what are your gains? How can you make the most of this? Because at the end of the day, the truth is that this is your reality. So it's like you got one shot. I keep telling myself that all the time. We have one shot to live life. Why not go for it?
Why not embrace it? Why not find ways to get connected to it? Here's the thing too, is we have to remember that if we're feeling disconnected, that's stemming from how you're talking to yourself. So if you're telling yourself constantly, this is the life change that I needed, but this totally sucks. This is going to be really hard. I can't believe that this is happening. Of course you're going to feel disconnected and you're going to feel negative. But if you're telling yourself, I didn't anticipate this. This is not what I desired, but I'm so proud of myself for making this step. I'm so proud of myself for finding way I might feel disconnected now, and I know that with every single day I'm going to find more and more peace. So I would really pay attention to the thoughts that you're saying to yourself.
Brittany: Yeah, that's great. Okay. To regain self-esteem after an abusive relationship.
Jenn: Well, I actually have some experience on that. It's a story I haven't told very often. Do you know my full story, Brittany? Have I told you?
Brittany: I feel like I know parts of it. I don't know all of it.
Jenn: I was in an abusive relationship at one point. It almost cost me in my life, but truly that was my turning point. So I really truly get this. How do you regain that self-esteem? What I would say to you is I would definitely go to therapy because they're going to help you unpack some stuff that maybe you don't even know what's going on, but also is kind of going back to that word agreement. When you're in an abusive relationship, you get beaten down so much and you start to believe things about yourself that aren't true, especially that you're unworthy, that no one's going to love you, that you're the crumb of the earth. All these things. I want you to really start paying attention to what are the agreements that you made and are those really true about you? And if you're a believer, I would take those to the word of God and I would take those to your father who is going to say, absolutely no, right? You are worthy and I have accounted for you and you are a beautiful daughter. And so I would start thinking about what are those agreements that you made and what new agreements do you need to start making with yourself? Because here's the thing, if you stay inside those agreements and if you keep telling yourself that it's hard to get out of those agreements, that person still has control over your life, that's the power. And so I want you to get pissed off about that. I want you to get mad about that. They are no longer going to have that control over your life. So what do you have to do? Take responsibility. Is it your fault? Was it my fault that I was in a relationship? I had responsibility parts of it, but it wasn't my fault fault. But I had to take full responsibility that I got myself in that situation. And then that's also what got me out of it, and I started a completely different trajectory. I mean, I really shouldn't even be where I'm at, honestly, truly. So that's what I would say.
Brittany: So I would also just piggyback off of this if you are the person who asked this question or if you relate to this, I'd also say this season on the podcast, we did an interview with the girls from Her True Worth on Instagram. And there is some really good correlations in our conversation and some of what you just answered. But Britt and Cass really go into some conversation and just sharing their stories and how they found their worth again and give specific Bible verses. So if that is you needing to hear more, we do have another podcast that we'll put in the show notes. But the girls I interviewed were their Instagram is Her True Worth, and it just really segues along with what your answer was and kind of where you're finding your worth.
Jenn: That's right. Yes. So good. Their stuff is amazing. Their content. So good.
Brittany: They're so great. Okay, next question. Balancing life, motherhood and work, what are your tips and tricks?
Jenn: Balance. Balance? Do you believe there's balance? There's always this debate out there. What do you think?
Brittany: I think, I mean to me, I'm like you're balancing for a little while, but it's also just how life, what you're creating, what is your norm? Yep.
Jenn: Yeah, it's hard, right? I don't know if I believe in balance or not. That's why I'm asking. So it's to be determined. But I would say, I think first of all, I like to pay attention to the story I'm telling myself about working, about how stressful it is, about all the things that I'm juggling. Because the more that I make that story bigger and anxious and stressful, guess what? The more my reality is stressful and anxious and all these things. So what I've decided around balancing life and work and all the things motherhood, is that I want to be fully present where I am currently. And so what I've decided to do is just break up my day in hours and be fully present. So I used to be working, texting and do all the things and get on Instagram while I'm getting my kids ready for school.
Done. I'm done with that. No, I'm fully a mom at that moment. Did you know, I recently read, and don't quote me on this, but somewhere around whenever you're changing roles from mom to work or work to mom or wherever, it takes about 22 minutes. So as we're trying to multitask and do all these things, it actually really doesn't work. So I think the balance would be is to set your boundaries around how much time you want to spend in each bucket and just be fully present there. And if it feels wonky, maybe the first thing would actually be to sit down and really think about how you're actually living your life right now. Because sometimes work can be way out of whack. It's like you're spending so many hours, but you really don't want to be spending. So maybe you take an honest inventory of where you currently are and then really think about what is the ideal day, what does the ideal balance look like? And then find your way working towards that goal.
Brittany: Yeah, no, that's awesome advice. I think there's been times where I just look back and I'm like, how did I do all of that in such a good insane operating at this insane pace that is not normal? And once I really started prioritizing like, okay, I am at home and from this time to this time I am mom. And then I am so confident in, I am not worried about where my kids are because I'm so confident in what they're doing that I'm able to fully have my mind and my job and give all my presence there. But it's interesting because I feel like right now, Nichelle and I kind of bounce back and forth a lot between work and being in Loverly Grey and we shift to doing house stuff in the middle of building this house, and there's meetings that we're having and working with our builders and our designers, and we need to be on site for things or there's selections that need to be made, and we are literally having to leave our brain in work mode and turn it off and turn it on house mode. And that has become, sometimes we'll look at each other and be so proud of us for how much we're handling right now, but it does take a second to fully stop one thing and start another. And it's hard.
Jenn: Yes, adjust yes. But could you imagine if you were bringing work into the house as you were tapping this? It's like too much. We just can't.
Brittany: This is why we had to get an office.
Jenn: And I think that's what we do, and we also expect of ourselves as women. I think we just expect that we can just do it all. And I think we can have it all, but I think we have to be really, really smart and intentional about how we're managing all of that at the same time.