February 07, 2022

Everything You Need to Know About Botox Part 2

Everything You Need to Know About Botox Part 2

On today’s episode, Brittany and Nichelle are chatting with Kalen Ashford. Kalen is a skincare specialist who specializes in full face rejuvenation with an emphasis on natural results. She believes every face is unique and deserves a customized approach to enhance your beauty. 

In this episode you’ll hear:

    •    About the importance of exfoliating and what under exfoliating can do

    •    What type of ingredients to look for in your products 

    •    How you can reach your skin goals

    •    What causes fine lines and wrinkles as well as how to prevent and treat them

    •    Kalen’s number one must-have product

Follow Kalen on Instagram @the_cosmeticpa. 

Kalen loves the Complexion Clearing Masque by ZO Skin Health for a spot treatment. 

Visit Ashford Aesthetics online: ASHFORD COSMETICS

Grab your iced coffee and let’s continue the chat over on Instagram @LifewithLoverly


This podcast was transcribed using Descript. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Brittany: Hi friends. Welcome to Life with Loverly I'm your host, Brittany Sjogren. I'm excited to share my heart with you beyond the 15 seconds we get on Instagram, grab an iced coffee and let's do life together. 

Hello? Hello. How are you guys so excited to be in today's episode? Kalen is back. Our skincare specialist, all the things I'm so excited to have you back on.

I feel like I have so many questions and all sorts of things. So in a previous episode, last season we interviewed Kalen and we talked all things, Botox, disport, filler. We didn't really touch on skincare, but I feel like that's the exciting stuff. So we're going to hit the skincare topics with Kalen today. For those of you who are local, she is local as well. In Five Points. 

Kalen: So exciting. 

Brittany: Yes. So happy that you're here, Kalen, we're going to leave a ton of information for you guys in the show notes today. So make sure you check out there for all of the details about Kalen and where you can find her and our past episodes. So you can go back and listen to that if you have any specific questions, but how are you?

Kalen: So good. 

Brittany: I'm so happy to hear that. Have talked to a lot of people recently who have come to see you and are getting the Botox, the filler and the new skincare. 

Kalen: Yes. All things needed for great appearance. 

Brittany: Yes. I didn't wear any makeup today because I knew you were coming.

Kalen: And you look awesome.

Brittany: Thank you. I feel so much more confident in my clear skin right now than I feel like I ever have before. And I feel like for those of you who follow closely on Loverly Grey on Instagram stories, you can probably tell

Kalen: You can see the difference.

Brittany: Yeah. I just feel more confident and I love going makeup free.

 And it's not that I didn't before, but I just felt like my skin needed something. And I didn't know exactly what that meant. A friend recommended you for disport when I was like moved here and wanted to, get established with somebody. So as I was sitting in your chair getting disport, and then eventually we did a little bit of lip filler, which I'm also loving.

Kalen: Looks so good.

Brittany: Thank you. As I'm sitting in your chair and you were analyzing my skin each time, that was just like setting me up to do a skincare consultation. But you had seen my skin several times. And I feel like you were waiting for me to be like

Kalen: Hey Kalen so what else do I do? 

I'm glad you asked.

Brittany: It has made such a difference. So I thought it would be fun for you to walk through what my skincare regimen is what we have switched up. Some of your, maybe notes of what you were seeing in my skin. And what changes we've made. And then we have so many great questions.

We're going to bring Nichelle in, in a little bit and she's got some questions too. So I feel like this episode is going to be jam packed with a lot of really good skincare information. 

Kalen: I love when patients come in and say, okay, what else can we do about our skin? Because skin is my first love. Who doesn't love Botox and Dysport and fillers? But skin is definitely my first love. Let's be honest, you have great skin to begin with. So there were just little minor tweaks that we were needing to make. And I told you in your consultation, a lot of what we do is goal oriented.

I like to have a place to go. Where are we going? Why are we doing this? A lot of times people can get skincare and it smells really good and it feels good going on, but what's it doing? Is it serving you? Is it serving your skin? Is it serving your needs? A lot of times people are confused on what to do. And that's okay. They're not supposed to be the expert.

Brittany: There's so much information out there. I even get approached by skincare brands all the time that are like, Hey, we really want to push this product. We would love to set up a collaboration. Who can we reach out to discuss? And I feel like there's only been a handful of skincare brands or products that I've really tried and liked over the years . But then even in talking with you, some of those weren't even doing the right things for my skin . And while I, like you said I love the way it. Felt going on. And I thought I was having great results.

There was something better that I just wasn't aware of because I'm not a skincare professional. , that's not my area of expertise. And while I love trying out products and sharing those things with you guys, I'm only doing what I think is best for my skin. I can't advise anybody else.

Whereas that's what your job is. And I was at a point where I liked my skin. I felt great. But there were just things that were concerning me that I was like, I feel like this could be better or I honestly was looking at Kalen's skin as I'm in the chair being like, okay, so how do you get that?

What are you using? So then that's what kind of made me realize. Probably other options out there. 

Kalen: That's where it can get difficult too. Because especially if there's no blatant skin problem you're not blatantly having acne or malasma like the, that dark pigmentation that you can get or you have sun damage and it's, anybody can see that.

And you're like, okay, I have a problem. I need to fix it. . But when you're at a point where you're like, okay, really have a skin problem that I can name, identify myself. But I know I could do something more or my skin's just not exactly where I need it to be. That's where it can get a little bit more difficult for the, at home skincare, person. When I was evaluating your skin. And I think a lot of time what people will come to me and say, they'll say my skin feels dull or looks dull, or they'll have very visible pores. And what can I do about that? And then we have to say, okay, Why is that? What are you using? And different you mentioned different lines or different brands.

The things that I look at are active ingredients. So that's very important. What are the active ingredients? And again, are they serving you and what are the additional ingredients for that matter? 

Brittany: I think even when in our last podcast, we might have mentioned this, or maybe it was when I was in the chair at your office, but we were talking about the sunscreen and she was like, go back tonight and look at what your sunscreen is. Is it a zinc? Or is it like a chemical sunscreen? And I was like surely it's like the right type of sunscreen, but there are a few different options. And what I was using was a chemical sunscreen. And so I've switched to a sunscreen that has zinc in it.

I can even tell a difference in just the sunscreen I think I'm just becoming a little bit more aware and wanting to make those changes while I hope that you all call Kalen or come and visit her. If that's not an option for you getting into see somebody who is a professional who can really help guide you and make sure that making smart choices for your skin. 

Kalen: Exactly what you're touching on the chemical versus physical sunscreen even. That's not even saying that a chemical sunscreen's bad. They're fine. But it's just, is it right for you? That's the key is whatever you're using, for you. And it's hard to give blanket statements to a whole country.

And say, Use this. Because each person's an individual , and we all are using different things. We're in different climates. We are in different seasons of our life. We are different ages. So we were going to talk a little bit about what we changed in your regimen. This is the fun part. I think when we were going through your regimen, one of the things we were assessing and trying to treat and change specifically was your skin texture, and then you had a little bit of redness just background redness that we were trying to improve upon. And then maybe we can do like a before and after show the people. 

Brittany: Yeah. 

Kalen: When we were going through your specific skincare regimen, I saw a couple of things that weren't really helping your texture. A lot of times when we are under exfoliating and there is such thing as too much exfoliation, but when we're under exfoliating, we can get a buildup of dead skin cells. Classic moisturizers can almost pat the dead skin cells and compact them onto the skin. And it doesn't allow your skin to exfoliate properly.

So if we're under exfoliating, your skin can look dull you can even get clogged pores. You can get black heads from that and it can slow down that natural exfoliation process. And then there are a few things that we held off on and then added to, to decrease in background redness.

And sometimes when I see a little bit of redness, again, we have to look for what's the casue? Why are we getting this redness? Is it too much oil? Is it some inflammation in the skin? Is it a skin disease like rosacea? Is it some inflammatory process from inside the body? So look at the cause treat the problem.

Brittany: And I feel I didn't even really realize that I had redness she was like, okay. So I seen a lot of redness here and I'm like, you are? Okay. I've never done anything for redness before. I was definitely not exfoliating enough. And now I exfoliate every day and then another thing I wasn't doing was I wasn't using any type of toner and so just even making those like three changes that I wouldn't have known to do, has made such a different, I feel like in just like the feel and look of my skin. In addition, there were a few other things that you gave me to try out. A lot of the products, or I guess all of the products that you suggested, we kept some of like the things from my current routine.

Kalen: There were a few things you liked. You weren't looking to completely revamp your whole skincare routine. And again, like I've said before, this is not a, this is the skincare routine for the rest of your life. Things, change your body changes, your skincare routine should change.

Brittany: And I think that's really important because I, people messaging me all the time and they say things like, oh, I'm pregnant. Can I use that while I'm pregnant? And I'm like, I one do not know. But also. It might not work for you now, but it might work for you later. There's so many different, like variations that are happening in people's bodies.

 That could cause change. So I think just being open to doing something now, but that might not be like a forever thing. The skincare brand that we are using, will you talk a little bit about what the brand is and why you like it? 

Kalen: Just as a little bit of background, I have been in dermatology for a very long time.

 Or in my terms a very long time. Some people much, much longer than myself, but. I have used a lot of different products, both non-prescription and prescription. But I chose this particular line to work with because I personally, and again, here's the personal thing. Saw the biggest changes in my own skin.

And my skin used to be extremely sensitive to most products. It would get red very easily, very irritated very sensitive to fragrances. And what I figured out over time is that my skin barrier was disrupted . So over time in using this specific skincare line I switched that I changed it and I realized my skin was sensitized.

So there could be problems genetically with your skin barrier, like eczema, for example, but there can also be an acquired sensitivity. And that's what I was experiencing was something acquired. Fast forward, revamped my skin barrier fell in love with these particular products. And it is, I'm sure you have all heard his name, but Dr. OBA actually created an entirely new system called Z O and his theory on skincare is just. I agree. And I agree wholeheartedly because I've seen it work on multiple people. And the, you'll hear people say I have sensitive skin, so I can't use X, Y or Z product. That can be true for a very small minority of people.

However, the majority of people do not have a genetically quote unquote "sensitive skin", and we can reverse that. And even if someone does have genetically sensitive skin, you can control it or at least decrease how sensitive it is. 

Brittany: Yeah. I've been very impressed with his products and I actually had never heard of him before being at your office

Kalen: No, you've never heard of Dr. OBA. 

Brittany: No. 

Kalen: Oh, Brittany 

Brittany: So I don't know, but I'm loving everything that we are using. 

Kalen: So bringing it back to your specific skincare regimen, because this is what the people want. We went back to what are our goals? Texture background, redness, because you had good skin to begin with. Another goal that we didn't really mention was anti-aging. A lot of what we do is preventative. And we touched on that on the other podcast where it's okay, what do we do for prevention? I don't want the deep crease lines. And like I talked about on the other podcast, doing things to decrease muscle movement, like Dysport and Botox really help decrease, breaking the collagen, but supporting the skin itself and increasing collagen Ansen and all things that make the skin healthy are very important for antiaging as well. 

So your skincare regimen, we tweaked it some. We are basically preparing the skin to accept more stimulation from other products. So cleansing properly, exfoliating balancing the skin. To accept the products we're treating your eye area. With an eye cream, that's helping prevent fine lines and wrinkles around the eye. Then we're applying some skin barrier repair. Again, we went back to the sensitivity part of it. If your skin barrier is altered or it's not functioning properly, your skin can be sensitive.

You can have a little bit of inflammation, background redness. So after the barrier repair, we use products that would help decrease inflammation and provide antioxidants to the skin. And then we protect it always. SPF always 100% of the time. 

Brittany: So the last two things I do is the vitamin C and I let that kind of go over everything. And then I put sunscreen on and it just feels like that's like locking everything in for the day and then even when I put my makeup on, I feel like it's going on smoother. It has like a good place to start, it feels like the pallet is good.

 So I know that all of those things are working, but then having that final. I don't even know what the, yeah, like sealing in my face with this means sunscreen is making a difference.

Kalen: It's funny you say that the sunscreen itself, there are different kinds of sunscreen. There are all different kinds of formulations, things that you can get at the drug store at the derm office anywhere. Sunscreen will work no matter what formulation the difference is how cosmetically pleasing it is. . So what you are talking about is it feels good. You don't get the sunscreen smell. You can put makeup on it over it. And I think that's the key to wearing sunscreen daily because I get so many people who come to me and I'm like, are you wearing sunscreen daily?

And they're like, no, I am not. I hate the smell of sunscreen or it's the winter. I'm not wearing sunscreen. I'm like there's still sun there's something. A lot of times people shy away from it because they can't put on makeup after. And my goal is for you not to have to wear makeup.

Brittany: Yeah, it's worth it

Kalen: Wake up, skincare, sunscreen out the door and let's, don't get crazy. Let's still put on mascara, but that's not really makeup, is it?

Brittany: Exactly. 

Kalen: But that's the goal. And then at night for you. Again, more stimulation. Of course we have a retinoid in your routine. Because those are my loves.

They are very well studied and increased collagen, decreased, fine lines and wrinkles. Anything you could ask for from a skincare product or retinoids it, but then the question is which retinoids, for you and your goals. 

Brittany: Okay. So we have a lot of questions that you guys submitted and we're actually going to bring Nichelle in today, too.

Hey Nichelle. 

Nichelle: Hello? 

Kalen: Hey Michelle. 

Brittany: Because she has some questions as well. Kalen actually just started working on your skin, which is looking great as well. 

Nichelle: Thank you Kalen. 

Kalen: You are so welcome. 

Brittany: It's fun because Nichelle's been taking a daily picture to see the change over time.

 And even just for the two weeks that it's been, it's wow, that's crazy. It's actually like targeting that. So I think that's really cool and will be fun to watch and see like what it looks like in the course of three months or six months or whatever. 

Nichelle: It's fantastic. And I think being older, going, I'm trying to go backwards at this point, , 

Kalen: That's the goal.

Nichelle: That's the goal. So being able to go backwards, I wanted to take those pictures to show myself like, okay, this is working. 

Kalen: Keep going. Michelle. 

Nichelle: Also like showing other people like it's possible. It's possible for you to have the right products.

 Target at the right problems. 

Brittany: Nichelle and I are both trying to accomplish two different things, but also a lot of the same things and wanting to prevent or reverse or just like together look younger. But we also have two completely different skin types.

 So it's cool to see what Kalen is doing for both of us. But we want to get to some questions and I know that you, Nichelle had a few questions to bring up, so maybe let's start with what some questions are that you might have. And then we can get into some of our reader submitted questions as well.

Nichelle: Sure. I think one of the things that I noticed for myself, but then also people around me were like, okay, if I go see a dermatologist, they're going to tell me these are the three things that, you want to make sure that you're doing at all times, but then it's not necessarily the same three things for every single person.

So I'll just give an example of my experience. The dermatologist is where I started, because that's where I thought I needed to go. And they're like, wash your face are using a moisturizer 

Okay. Use SPF and be on your way and you'll be great. 

What it didn't address was the wrinkles and the lines under my eyes and all of those things over the years. And one of the things that has come up is people want to ask what are the top three things you recommend? I love the answer that you gave. Do you mind telling them.

Kalen: I know we were joking about this earlier. So it's so funny. When I have people come in and ask certain questions, I know where they're getting their information based on the questions, because I see information floated around on the internet and I see the little snippets of information that people will gather and carry with them.

And everyone wants to know what are the top three things or what is the one thing that you can do? The honest answer is there isn't a top three that's a blanket statement for everyone. However, the answer that people want to hear is sunscreen, retinoid, vitamin C . That's the information that's being floated around. But everyone's different.

And sometimes maybe their skin is not quite prepared for a stronger. Retinol or a stronger stimulation of their skin or maybe their skin barrier is going to be a little bit more sensitive to a vitamin C that they're using right away. So maybe we need to switch that up before we add in those stimulation products.

It's going to be different for everybody. 

Nichelle: Also, one of the things that I think surprised me, tremendously. Whenever I was sitting in your chair. Was obviously the redness was there, but I had enlarged pores and this is something that Brittany and I talked about all the time. I'm like, is it like pulling tight because of Botox?

Like they're not blackheads, they're just, they're larger pores. And I think a lot of times growing up and going through my twenties, people are just like, you just have enlarged pores , that's just how it is. And I was shocked to learn that it's usually from overproduction of oils.

Kalen: So increased production of oil can clog the pores and make them appear larger. But there's certain things that you can do to exfoliate. Clean. Clean out the pores and then you can support the tissue around the port to make them appear smaller. 

Brittany: I feel like my face is a perfect example. Of like my forehead. 

Kalen: Oh my goodness. It's such a change. Don't you love it?

Brittany: In between my eyebrows and like that area and I think maybe that's what I was thinking was texture but it was really just like my pores were just not being properly cleaned and supported And so now that I'm doing that, I'm seeing it is appearing more tight and firm because I don't see like what I thought, what was just an enlarged pore.

Nichelle: Same here too. The exfoliator, I feel was the game changer for me, 

Kalen: It's so good. 

Nichelle: And it was, I don't want to overstate, but almost immediately.

Kalen: It's getting that dead keratin off of the skin can just really change the way it appears. And when you have a buildup of dead skin cells, Wiping that away can make your skin appear like glass. It's just phenomenal. And it allows your products to penetrate deeper.

If you don't have a lot of dead skin that you're trying to work through, it allows the products that are actually actively going into the skin changing things to work better. 

Nichelle: that's the other thing that I feel like I noticed because I had a lot of oil sit on the middle of my face, where I was putting a lot of products.

 And it felt like it was just sitting on top of my skin for the entire day . Whereas I feel like this skincare, I let it sit for whatever the 10 minutes is to do my hair. And then I feel like it's absorbed. It's done its job. And then I can continue on with makeup and everything.

Brittany: So speaking of exfoliating, somebody submitted a question asked how often should you exfoliate? And I know for me, I'm exfoliating at least once a day. And I know it's probably different for everybody.

Kalen: Here's a good general rule that we can give to everybody. So there are different types of exfoliation, there's chemical and physical. And sometimes we use both like what you're doing. You have a chemical and physical exfoliation in your regimen. The physical, obviously physically takes it away. Think of something kind of gritty or even something like derma planning is a type of physical exfoliation.

And then there's chemical exfoliation. That will break up the bonds between the dead skin cells and allow it to wash away a little easier or break down the dead skin. If you feel like you have sensitive or tight or dry skin, a good rule of thumb is don't exfoliate more than a couple times a week.

And then as your skin becomes less sensitive, you can increase exfoliation. So if your skin barrier feels tight, dry, sensitive, decrease exfoliation, and then you can slowly increase over time. 

Brittany: Okay. Yeah. And even, I feel like in the toner pads, I use, it also feels like those are also helping exfoliate. It feels like it's just really working the toner, like into my face 

Kalen: The pad that you're using actually has a little bit of texture to it. So it has both chemical and physical exfoliation. The other thing I wanted to say about exfoliants is there are a lot of exfoliants on the market that don't also restore the skin barrier. So one of the exfoliation products that you are using restores the skin barrier in addition to exfoliating. 

Brittany: Okay.

Kalen: So that's an important aspect.

Brittany: Right. These are other things I would never know without seeking professional help to really assess my skin , which is going back to like highly recommend seeing somebody if you're having real concerns about your skin.

Kalen: Right? Or even just a check in like you said, 

Brittany: Yeah. New year, new skin.

So another question that I saw on here that I would love to get your opinion on, because I think a lot of people experience hormonal acne. Even when I was pregnant with Collins, I got really bad acne. Not as much with Hazel for whatever reason, but I know a lot of people in these childbearing years and they are having babies and their acne is just going crazy. Because there's also, so many products you shouldn't use when you're pregnant. What is your recommendation? 

Kalen: Oh, pregnancy's tough with acne. It really is. Hormonal acne generally when people refer to something as hormonal acne, they're talking about like after puberty, like away from the teenage years, more so with females and it's in what we call a U zone, which is jawline, cheeks, chin sometimes a little bit on the forehead. But a lot of times it can come up cyclically like around your menstrual cycle or have these waves during pregnancy. And it's just this imbalance of different hormones causing inflammation. It's sad because we think we're done with acne. In our teenage years. And then all of a sudden it pops up in our twenties and we're like, wait a second.

I had the same thing happen to me. My twenties popped up, I got cystic lesions on my chin. It's just no fun. Nobody likes it. And then about. 25, 20% of people in their forties can get hormonal acne. It's just an imbalance of hormones. When we have an imbalance, it can increase oil, production, increase inflammation, cause clogged, pores.

So everything that we do to treat that would be, decrease inflammation, control oil production, and then some people even need oral medications, like on anti androgen. There's one called Lacone. That's used very often for hormonal acne. Some people take oral birth control but sometimes oral contaceptives just can cause acne.

So it's difficult. And that's where it's the very individualized skincare. There's certain things that you can do right away. If you're really suffering from that, there is a product that I love. It's called complexion clearing mask, and it's by the same line. I love it as a spot treatment.

 Because it decreases inflammation. And it decreases some of the edema associated with the inflammation and for lack of better words, dries it up overnight. Love it for a spot treatment 

Brittany: That's good to know.

Nichelle: All right. So obviously a very huge question that the people want to know is what do they do about anti-aging there's all these oh, anti-aging this. Anti-aging that. Preventative this. Share your wisdom. 

Kalen: Yes. Most of the time when people talk about anti-aging, they are specifically talking about fine lines and wrinkles. And a lot of times that is coming from chronic sun damage and broken collagen and wear and tear of your skin over time.

 A lot of people can also see aging in large, poor size or broken capillaries, or, you name it altered pigmentation. So all of that makes us, older. Think sun spots, right? Age spots, all of that can make us look older. If you do the reverse of that, it is what does a baby's skin look like?

What does Hazel skin look like? Perfectly even skin tone or like my little west and his big chubby cheeks. It's just perfect. It's plump hydrated, even skin tone. Just perfect. So when we say anti-aging it's like, how do we prevent the age spots, fine lines and wrinkles, broken capillaries?

How do we prevent that? And then the biggest question is how do we treat that if we already have it, because a lot of people don't care about it until they're in their thirties and they're starting to see signs of this and you probably already know my number one anti-aging and that's preventative.

Take care of your skin, sunscreen, right? That's going to be number one. Don't let it happen in the first place. Prevent as much collagen breakdown as you possibly can prevent the sun damage. Decrease the wear and tear from our everyday. So that's number one, and then helping to support collegen and growth retinoids in my opinion are going to be a big part of that.

stimulating your skin to produce more collagen elastin. It's internal hydrators. All of these things are going to be very important in not only preventing aging, but treating the aging process. One thing that people will say when they come in to see me. I'll ask a question, I'll say, so what are you doing for your skin right now?

 They'll say I'm washing my face and I'm using a retinoid that my dermatologist or their skin care person gave them. And I'm using it once a week. And I say, okay. Why are you using it once a week? And they'll say because I start to get flaky and then I stop. That is what we expect from a retinoid it's supposed to happen.

We do want to prepare your barrier to accept a retinoid, but we expect any kind of retinoid retinols, retinal to make you a little bit of red, a little bit dry, a little bit flaky, a little bit irritated, but it's going to happen for a short period of time. It's expected and you keep going and you push through it and I promise it gets better.

Nichelle: It's such a good point and you have to be committed to it. The one time a week. I left at that, because I think that's what I did. Probably in my twenties. 

Kalen: And then what happens is you stop and restart and then you stop and restart. 

Brittany: That is probably just setting you back even more. So if you take something from this podcast, like push through and then it will get better. And Nichelle's proof of that. As we're witnessing her skin change right now, transformation. 

Nichelle: Get yourself somebody who's like Kalin where it's like, she's checking in on me too. She has all these checkpoints. Okay. How are you feeling today? Okay. How is it going? Okay. Tell me what it feels like. What does it look like? Okay, great. That's normal. Keep pushing through. So that's been super helpful at the end of the day. 

Brittany: I think too, like just having that encouragement, but wanting to. Invest in your skin in this way is so much bigger or deeper than like what somebody is selling on Instagram.

Kalen: Yes. I always call this a workout for your skin. 

Brittany: It really is. People have to be so careful because again, like what works for somebody, might not be what will work for everybody. So it just depends on where you're at in your skincare journey. And what level you want to invest in but I feel like meeting with a skincare professional is only going to help you as long as like your goals and their goals align together. Really figuring out what those goals are at the beginning. So that your skin can be properly treated. And you guys can be aligned with the end result. 

Kalen: Where are you going?

Nichelle: Yes. Speaking about investing, Brittany and I were talking about this a second ago. It was like, you have to make sure that you give yourself time. If you have a regimen. It's an investment in time. Morning and night. I joke, but I'm not joking is 15 minutes. 

Brittany: there's definitely times where I'm like, okay, let me go through my whole process, but I know what my end goal is. 

Nichelle: Exactly. 

Brittany: It almost gets me excited. I'm like, Ooh, this is part of my night routine. I'm going to make my face better. 

Kalen: And it feels good. And when you're switching a regimen, at first it can be a little bit daunting because you're like, okay, now what is the next step? Okay, this is the next step. But over time you get used to it and it just becomes second nature. And it's just part of the process. It's like brushing your teeth. It's like any other habit, honestly.

Brittany: Absolutely.

It's any other habit? It just becomes part of the process and you just do it and it's no big deal.

So I use a silk pillow piece. . Do you have any thoughts on that is like that a good thing? As opposed to a cotton? Does it do anything for your skin? 

Kalen: I think the idea behind a silk pillow case is not to have any kind of traction on the skin. So let's all be honest. If you lay with your face down on a and crush your face, 

Brittany: Which I do

Kalen: Okay. But the idea behind it's going to be traction, to decrease the sleep lines. And this is a fun thing you can do at home to try to figure out where your lines are coming from. So if your lines are more vertical on your face, let's say on your cheek or on your chin or up on your lip or on your forehead, like if you have a vertical forehead line that's from sleeping, that is a sleep line, train yourself to sleep on your back. Get a pregnancy pillow.

Those are the best. I slept with my pregnancy pillow after Collins for a little while after, and then Chris was like, okay, it's time for the pillow to go. 

Nichelle: I've always wondered how to get back in that habit.

Kalen: I know. There you go. Pregnancy pillow it is . But silk pillowcases are awesome.

Don't get me wrong. It's one more thing that you can do to help yourself. 

Brittany: And in turn. I feel like it is helping my skin, but for me, I started using it to help my hair. There you go. And so 

Kalen: I didn't even think about hair 

Brittany: Yeah, it doesn't get like crunchy. Because I have short hair and so I don't put it back to sleep if I'm sleeping on a cotton pillowcase and I lay my head, it gets crimped. Yeah. But the silk pillowcase helps it flow, which I imagine would be doing as far as like with the skin.

Kalen: I didn't even think about hair. I probably should have, but do, as I say, not as I do, , I'm definitely a side sleeper, but I'll notice that with my eyelashes even. Have you ever seen your eyelashes in the morning are crimped? I noticed that this morning.

Brittany: So many good takeaways from this episode. I feel like I even learned more sitting here today. so thank you as always for coming. 

Kalen: Yeah, absolutely. 

Brittany: I feel like this is so exciting and Kalen is working on some really fun things that we're going to be able to share with you guys soon. And thank you to all of our listeners. If you have any questions, if we didn't get to your question, please feel free to email us. And we will try our best to get back to you. Again, thank you so much and we will see you next time.

Thanks for listening to today's episode. I can't wait to continue these conversations with you over on Instagram at Life with Loverly, until next time. That was perfect.

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